You’ve probably heard there is lead in lipstick, but do you know how to find a lipstick that is lead-free? Lead is not listed on the label. My guest Kristin Adams is the Founder and Chief Executive Officer of Afterglow Cosmetics and her company now has a special process to make lead-free lipstick, which they sell along with other organic cosmetics. Kristen is also a beauty writer and advocate for stricter cosmetic safety standards. She is actively involved in The Campaign for Safe Cosmetics and is an expert on natural/organic and gluten-free cosmetic formulations and ingredients. The Afterglow line was born out of Kristin belief that women shouldn’t sacrifice color, performance or quality when choosing natural and organic make-up. Afterglow Cosmetics is a full line of organic infused, all natural, bio-active make-up. The cleanest line of make-up on the market, Afterglow offers professional coverage and a striking range of shades. Since its inception in 2004, Afterglow Cosmetics has been featured in top media outlets across the country. Thanks to Kristin’s expertise, Afterglow is a prime example that quality can be achieved naturally without the standard, and often toxic ingredients, petrochemicals, parabens gluten, and synthetics found in traditional cosmetics. www.debralynndadd.com/debras-list/afterglow-cosmetics

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transcript

TOXIC FREE TALK RADIO
How to Find a Lead-Free Lipstick and Other Safe Cosmetics

Host: Debra Lynn Dadd
Guest: Kristin Adams

Date of Broadcast: July 25, 2013

DEBRA: Hi, I’m Debra Lynn Dadd and this is Toxic Free Talk Radio where we talk about how to thrive in a toxic world even though there are a lot of toxic chemicals in many consumer products and in the air we breathe and the water we drink, food we eat, et cetera. There are also many safe products and safe places to be that have minimized the toxic exposure if not eliminated it entirely.

So that’s what we’ll talk about in this show, how to identify the toxic chemicals, where are they, what are they doing to our health, but also, the most important thing is to be able to construct a life that is free from these toxic chemicals and the health effects and mental effects and spiritual effects that they cause.

So today, we’re going to be talking about cosmetics and beauty products. My guest has created her own line of cosmetics and beauty products because of her interest in having them be exceptionally toxic-free. The reason why I invited her on – I know about this company before and I actually have it listed on my website.

You know, I forgot to tell you the date. The date is Thursday, July 25th 2013 and I’m here in Clearwater, Florida.

My guest today created her own cosmetics line. And the reason that I decided to have her on the show is because I’m obviously on her mailing list and I received an email promotion that said, “Is lead lurking in your lipstick?”

Now, I’ve written a lot about lead and lipstick and I’ve also tried to find lipsticks that did not have lead in them. As I started calling around to different places (I didn’t call her company at the time), when I was trying to look for lipsticks that had no lead, I would call at people and they would say, “Oh, yeah. We don’t put any lead in our lipstick. There’s no lead in our lipstick,” but as it turns out, it’s not necessarily on the label. And when I started learning more about what they’re doing to make their lipsticks 100% lead-free by a new process that they’ve developed themselves, I thought, “I need to have her on the show, so we can talk about this and other aspects of what’s toxic in cosmetics and what’s not.”

Kristine, are you there?

KRISTINE ADAMS: Yes, I am. Thanks for having me on.

DEBRA: This is Kristin Adams. She is the founder and chief executive officer of Afterglow Cosmetics. So Kristine, let’s start. Tell us why you’re interested in having things not be toxic.

KRISTINE ADAMS: Well, it started – we’re on our ninth year. It started way back nine years ago when I was investigating for myself how to address my own skin issues. I knew that I was eating healthy, I was eating organic. I had a really lifestyle for someone in their mid-twenties, but I still had lots of skin conditions. I had very sensitive skin. I had acne that wasn’t necessarily coordinated with my menstrual cycles. I was starting to investigate, “Okay, if it’s not something I’m eating, what is it topically that I’m putting on my body that’s causing me to react in this way?”

I really feel that what happens on the skin is an expression of what’s going on inside and what you’re doing to your skin on the outside. I started investigating and I immediately went after – and that was back in the early 2000s. There weren’t as many options, but I immediately went after those options that said that they were more natural, more green – no one even talked organics in make-up at that time – and started looking at the ingredients that they actually had in those products and realized that I didn’t even want to use those ingredients on my body once I started investigating each individual ingredient that they were actually claiming as natural.

It got me really angry at first. And then I decided that I could start making the products for myself. I had a background in art and painting. And so for me, making a color pigment is not that different than mixing a paint from scratch.

So I started making it for myself. And many years later, now I work with chemist. We’ve grown and expanded and I reach out to women all over the world with more natural products. But the origin was really how can I honor my body and really advocate for myself and my own beauty.

DEBRA: I totally understand because that was very much situation too where I could see that although I was going away beyond skin problems, I wanted to say two things. I wanted to respond to what you said. One is, first, I wanted to say I can see you’re artistic aesthetic-ness in your products.

KRISTINE ADAMS: Oh, thank you.

DEBRA: …that that really comes across to me, that you’re an artist. And when I put color on my face, when I put make-up on, I do think of my face as being like a painting, like a work of art and that I’m putting colors on to enhance it and make shadows and accents and things. It very much is an artistic thing for me.

But I also wanted to point when I was writing my book, Toxic-Free, I studied a lot about how the body detoxification operates and there are actually different symptoms that you can observe to see when toxic things are getting built up in your body, that there are specific symptoms that actually give you different degrees of showing how toxic what your body burden is.

Skin breakouts is one of the levels. I don’t remember which one it is. It’s in my book. But when people have their skin breaking out, it’s a sign that there’s too much toxic stuff in your body and that your body is trying to get rid of it.

So you did exactly the right thing to be looking at what are you putting your body because it’s getting in there in your skin.

And also, I want to point out because I know most people don’t know this that from a toxic exposure viewpoint, what you put on your skin is actually worse than eating it or drinking it because if you eat something that’s toxic, let’s say pesticides on food, it goes into your digestive system where there’s a lot of proteins and fats and it gets all bound up with everything that’s in your digestive system before it goes into the rest of your body.

When you put something in your skin, it goes straight in to your bloodstream in seconds. And so what we’re putting on our faces and on our bodies is extremely important to have it be as pure as possible because it’s the quickest way it’s going to get into your body.

KRISTINE ADAMS: Yeah. And just to add on to that, a lot of times, people approach that fact with disbelief because it just doesn’t make sense to them because they’re not actually putting it into an orifice. But if you think about the birth control patch or the nicotine patch, those are just simple patches. They go right on your skin and are quickly absorbed and alter your complete body chemistry. So it makes perfect sense.

DEBRA: Yeah, yeah. So this is great. So, let’s talk about lipstick for a minute. I know we’re going to run into the break and I’m going to have to interrupt you, but let’s just get started with that. Why don’t you start with telling us how come there’s lead in lipstick? How does it get there?

KRISTINE ADAMS: Yeah, on your intro, I heard you mention lead isn’t in the ingredient list. “I looked for lead and there was no lead in my ingredients list, so I’m good.” Lipsticks are essentially oils. Most commercial lipsticks use petroleum oil as their base. They might have a few different binders to hold everything together. And then it’s pigments. The pigments come from two different places in the lipstick.

The pigment can come from dyes, FD&C and like dyes among others, which are synthetic pigment that makes the color of the lipsticks or they can come from a natural source.

Most commercial lipsticks still use very readily lots of natural ingredients, natural pigments in addition to the synthetic ones that they use.

The natural sources are normally iron oxide. Iron oxide are a series of pigments. So you’ll see iron oxide in the ingredient list, but then it’ll have a few different numbers. Those numbers indicate which mutation, for lack of a better word, that iron oxide is, whether it’s the black one, the red one, the brown one, the yellow one.

That mixture adds in to make that color. Those iron oxide are mined from the earth and the earth has lots of different contaminants when they pull out that iron oxide that come out with the pigment.

DEBRA: Okay, we’re going to need to go to the commercial break. We need to go to the commercial break, so we’ll continue this in a moment. This is Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. We’re here with Kristine Adams. She is the founder and chief executive officer of Afterglow Cosmetics. We’re talking about lead in lipstick and other toxic chemicals and our organic alternatives.

= COMMERCIAL BREAK =

DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. My guest today is Kristine Adams, founder and chief executive officer of Afterglow Cosmetics. We’re talking about lead and lipstick. So Kristine, go on, you were just telling us about how lipsticks are made still with iron oxide. Tell us what’s going on with iron oxides.

KRISTINE ADAMS: Yes, so iron oxide is probably one of the most common pigment ingredients that’s used in make-up in general. There’s nothing wrong with iron oxide, but what it does when it is mined is it brings out of earth lead, arsenic, mercury that comes with it. And just like anything else that’s mined from the earth, gold for example, when you mined gold – and sometimes, this is a much easier analogy for people to understand, gold comes in different purifications.

A very common purification is 24k gold, which means that it has trace elements within that 24k gold. That has nickel and other alloys. The same goes with iron oxide that’s mined from the earth. It too comes with its own trace elements that also come from the earth like lead.

The difference between the iron oxides that some cosmetic companies use and the iron oxide that we use is a purification level.

So iron oxide, to get a wee bit technical, is essentially the oxidation of iron or rust. That’s what gives it the color. But when it is mined from the earth with those trace metals and not purified enough, it goes right into the product and then directly onto your skin.
I guess the question would be…

DEBRA: Wait, wait. I need to ask you a question. I see iron oxides on the labels on all kinds of cosmetic products.

KRISTINE ADAMS: Absolutely.

DEBRA: I mean, everybody is using this mineral product. Just a few months ago, it came to my attention, there was a particular brand, which I won’t mention, but it’s been around for many, many, many years, like from the ‘70s, it’s got lots of iron oxides in it. You can look at any ingredients list for all these mineral make-ups and it’s iron oxide, iron oxide, iron oxide.

And so I always thought that iron oxide must be okay because it’s natural. But what you’re saying makes perfect sense to me. So now, we really need to be careful about which brands we’re buying because of the purification of the iron oxide, yes?

KRISTINE ADAMS: Well, yes. Even though the FDA has done studies about acceptable levels of lead in cosmetics by this point because of the scare of the studies that were done previously, yes, iron oxide is a commonly used ingredient in all cosmetics, not just natural cosmetics, not just mineral cosmetics, but all cosmetics and that’s where the lead is hidden.

When people don’t see it on their ingredient list, they wonder, “Why is there redness in my lipstick?”, it’s really coming from the iron oxide – not the iron oxide itself, but it’s kind of latched on as a trace metal within the iron oxide. Just like when you look at your 14k gold and say, “Why is it not as pure as that 24k gold and why is it harder?” It’s harder because it’s nickel. And some people that are allergic to nickel are also allergic to 14k gold and that’s because it carries nickel within it because it’s not purified.

DEBRA: For iron oxide, is there a rating number like there is for gold? I mean, how would we know as a consumer. I know when I was calling people, I would say, “Is your lipstick lead-free?” and they would say, “Well, of course, we’re not putting lead in our lipstick,” but they may not have known about lead being in there as a trace contaminant in the iron oxide that they’re using just like I didn’t know.

KRISTINE ADAMS: There are multiple complications with that. One, when you call a customer service rep especially for a company that isn’t dogmatically focused on the natural, pure, organic, as clean as possible as we are, they just aren’t trained to answer that question.

Nowhere down the line of their company have they ever probably asked their chemist, the formulator of that product, “Where are you sourcing this ingredient from? How clean is it? What other trace materials does it have? Does it have any certifications that certify it as clean so when we add it into the product, it doesn’t test out on the other end as something that would be unsavory?”

The customer person, they’re so far removed from that process that they just don’t even know how to begin to answer that question.

DEBRA: Yeah, yeah. Wow! Wow! To me, this is one of those things where what you’re saying makes total sense to me, but it’s like how would anybody have ever known unless somebody like you, we searched it out and found it out and are letting people know about it because it’s just not one of those things that’s known.

So I really appreciate the degree of research that you’ve done. This is really exceptional. Just thank you. Thank you.

KRISTINE ADAMS: And thank you or spreading the word. I really appreciate it.

DEBRA: Okay! So I guess what’s the guideline that people should be using? If they don’t want to have lead in lipstick, obviously, they could use your lipstick at Afterglow Cosmetics, which is at AfterglowCosmetics.com. But if they wanted to find out about lead and lipstick from some other company, what’s the question they should be asking?

KRISTINE ADAMS: So there are some regulation, regulatory bodies like EcoCert that certify pigments for much more intense level standards than are acceptable by the FDA. They are specifically looking at pigments now because there hasn’t been any organic regulation.

And EcoCert is a private organic regulation body that works a lot in Europe and it works a lot with food ingredients and it’s starting to certify more products and ingredients. I hope in the next few years, there will be a standard for cosmetics, but right now, there isn’t.

So what we do at the company when we are formulating any product and with working with our chemist is that I need to make sure that each one of our ingredients is sourced from a place that does get those pigments certified EcoCert.

DEBRA: Good. We need to take another break. We need to take another break. We will be back after the break with Kristine Adams. She’s the founder and CEO of Afterglow Cosmetics. We’ve been talking about lead in lipstick and why there’s oftentimes lead. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio.

= COMMERCIAL BREAK =

DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. I’m here today with my guest, Kristine Adams. She’s the founder and chief executive officer of Afterglow Cosmetics.

Kristine founded Afterglow Cosmetics out of the belief that women shouldn’t sacrifice color, performance or quality when choosing natural or organic make-up. Afterglow Cosmetics is a full line of organic-infused all-natural bioactive make-up. She says that it’s the cleanest line of make-up on the market.

So Kristine, tell us more about your make-up line and what makes it special and everything and everything you’d like us to know about it.

KRISTINE ADAMS: Well, I think what makes our make-up most special is that it is – we really are dogmatic. That’s the best word I can use to describe it. I’m so empathic about making sure every single ingredient can be at its purest and cleanest. That isn’t marketing talk. That is, really, every time we use an ingredient, I want it to have active properties. Even every organic ingredient needs to contribute some way to the formula. We do that with a focus on skin care, so if the make-up is sitting on your face all day, it shouldn’t just act as pigment. It should do a great job there, but it should also contribute to helping your skin to retain its vitality. And we do that using a lot of certified organic ingredients.

We use aloe vera, organic aloe vera as the base of many of our products. It’s a beautiful carrier for pigment and really helps nourish the skin while the pigment is on there.

DEBRA: I love the aloe vera.

KRISTINE ADAMS: Yes.

DEBRA: I’ve just been recently putting aloe vera on my skin every night because here in Florida, we get a lot of insect bites. Even with the best insect repellant, we still get insect bites. It really takes away the itch, but it also makes my skin feel so soft.

KRISTINE ADAMS: Right! And it’s so soothing. It’s not heavy. It’s calming. Since we are so natural, focused on organic and use very few ingredient and really avoid a lot of even natural ingredients that are skin sensitizers, we attract women that have skin issues – rosacea, eczema, acne. And just by virtue of ingredients like aloe vera being in our products, it soothes and heals our skin in a way that an average run-of-the-mill cosmetic even the natural one doesn’t do.

DEBRA: Yes, I can see that. I can see that. Yes, that makes sense to me.

KRISTINE ADAMS: And also, I think another thing that’s very unique about our cosmetic line is more about the culture of the company and all the way to the customer service rep that answers your call. We’re all educated on what is actually on these products, what they’re actually doing, what’s the philosophy behind sourcing every single ingredient was and why, why we don’t use [inaudible 00:30:26], why we don’t use carmine colorant in our products and why we use organic.

I’m concerned about trace metals and other trace contaminants at every single level and that includes the botanicals that are in our products. We go that step further to make sure that you don’t have trace residue of pesticide in your make-up because if the product is not reaching for every single organic ingredient it can, you are also putting on your face trace pesticides obviously.

DEBRA: Yes, yes.

KRISTINE ADAMS: If the botanical in your product is not certified organic, that’s what you’re doing. So it’s so important. See, I’m using this. My mother is using this. My sister is using this. My friends are using this. All these women that have made up our community are using this make-up. That has to honor all of us. The choice has to do that.

DEBRA: Yes. Also, another thing is that it’s gluten-free make-up. So how did you come to that decision to make it gluten-free?

KRISTINE ADAMS: Yeah! Gluten is an issue for some and not for others. Some peoplesay gluten will eventually be something as an issue for everyone. My sister, my mother has Celiac Disease. They’re highly gluten intolerant to the point where if they eat any gluten, they get very ill.

My sister was using a lip balm that she’s empathic about. Very, very clean with her diet. She never has any gluten contamination. Once she does, she knows it because she get very bad stomach problems. She had been [inaudible 00:32:06], got a lip balm that was – a beautiful lip balm from a very well-known brand, but one of the base ingredients of this lip balm was wheat, wheat germ oil, which is gluten. And it is emollient, it helps heal the skin and it feels great in a lip balm, but it is wheat. So if you’re allergic to wheat, you are essentially ingesting and dosing yourself multiple times a day (you know how we apply lip balm) and she started to get really bad stomach issues and she could not figure out what she was until she followed it all the way back, traced it all the way back to that glutened lip balm.

DEBRA: Wow!

KRISTINE ADAMS: Yeah! I have the power to make a gluten-free lip balm because of what I can do in my company. If I can source the ingredients, our chemists are fantastic and we make it. So of course, I made them gluten-free lip balm.

And all of my other products, I’ve never used a gluten ingredient to begin with, but the entirely line is certified gluten-free and we are the only make-up line certified gluten-free. So just like you can trust us to be the cleanest, you can also trust us to be gluten-free. You don’t have to pick and choose, “Oh, with that ingredient, that product is and that product isn’t.” No, it’s a company philosophy. And we are certified, which means we’re not saying it, we’re not just talking about it, we know and we have third-party verification that test each batch to confirm it.

DEBRA: You’re telling me a lot of new things that I had never thought of about cosmetics. In fact, I eat a gluten-free diet itself, but I only think as far as the food itself. It never occurred to me that gluten would be in the wheat germ oil. I think of gluten as being something in the flour or something. This is fascinating, how far these things extend in life. Wow! I have a feeling that before when people talk about gluten-free, it’s not just food. But I haven’t seen the connection until you just explained it.

We need to take another break. But after the break, we’ll come back and talk more with Kristine Adams, founder and CEO of Afterglow Cosmetics. You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd.

= COMMERCIAL BREAK =

DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. I’m here today with Kristine Adams, founder and CEO of Afterglow Cosmetics. We’re learning so much about cosmetics. It’s amazing. Kristine, I know that you’re involved with the Campaign for Safe Cosmetics. So can you tell us a little bit about what are some of the toxic ingredients that women should really be watching out for besides lead in lipsticks? And what’s going on on the regulatory front and what is Campaign for Safe Cosmetics doing?

KRISTINE ADAMS: Well, the Campaign for Safe Cosmetics is founded by a collection of non-profits including the Breast Cancer Fund out of San Francisco. They are very much focused on – instead of just researching and devoting more money at cancer and breast cancer specifically from some of the research side, they’re really looking to educate women so they understand that perhaps many of the reasons why the rates of cancer have increased is because of our exposure to toxins on so many levels. And one of them is the body burden that we incur every day from all the products that we put on our skin that may be building up within our body and provoking issues that we wouldn’t have otherwise.

So what the campaign for safe cosmetics does on many levels is educate women and educate communities about how they can learn about what they’re buying. Many years ago, when you take up a box of cereal, you didn’t have that nutritional values fact on the back of it.

DEBRA: Right.

KRISTINE ADAMS: But through much regulation, because people did want to know and advocated for this, what was in that cereal that they were eating or in that packaged product that they were actually eating, how much sodium was really in there. Now, it’s second nature for us to do that, to pick up a box of cereal and what-have-you and look at what is actually in that pre-made product.

The Campaign for Safe Cosmetics is very much advocating for the same standard for transparency and disclosure of personal care products. So if you are [inaudible 00:41:24] like Afterglow is, you have confirmed that you will not use many, many, many ingredients that may be harmful to the body within the product.

DEBRA: That’s very good. I’m glad…

KRISTINE ADAMS: They’re still working on the regulatory front – with the bureaucracy, that is – the government to bring that to fruition.

DEBRA: There is a lot that needs to be done. It seems like in every radio shows we have been doing, we’ve been talking about disclosure in ingredients and how we can find out. I think that this is one of the difficulties that I’ve had for all the number of years that I’ve been writing about safer products and harmful chemicals. It’ll be so much easier if we could just go to a product label and actually see what’s in a product. And yet, there’s so many products that don’t disclose.

I really think personally that disclosure is going to be the next major issue for manufacturers and I think that there’s a big push to get that disclosure and that companies like yours who are giving the disclosure and talking about their ingredients I think are leading the way for what other companies are going to come to need to do.

KRISTINE ADAMS: Yeah.

DEBRA: I’m not even sure that it’s going to be a regulatory thing as much as if some companies start doing it and start doing it correctly, then consumers will know about that and then they’ll start demanding it from the other companies.

I’m trying to remember the company, the Johnson – I get confused with Johnson & Johnson and the Johnson Company. They’re two different companies and they make all these [inaudible 00:43:33] and everything. They have this big campaign about we disclose what’s in our products. I went to their website and I looked at it and I said, “Well, this is a really good disclosure, but they’re disclosing to us chemicals that I don’t want to put anywhere near my house.”

KRISTINE ADAMS: Exactly! They’re great, but…

DEBRA: Yeah!

KRISTINE ADAMS: Yeah.

DEBRA: Well, I’m glad that they disclosed, but people often don’t know that they could read – this is the other problem. Consumers knows so little about ingredients that if somebody is like that company could disclose their ingredients and the consumer could read it and go, “Well, that sounds fine to me.” It’s unfortunate that it’s so necessary for people like you and me to have to study, study, study, study, to find out about the ingredients because we should be able to live in a world where we don’t have to be so educated, that it’s the general rule that product is going to be safe and life-affirming and eco-friendly and that they’re going to be good for us. Don’t you think that’s how the world should be?

KRISTINE ADAMS: And unfortunately, here are lots of ways to game the system. One, when you read that ingredient list for cosmetics, it’s very difficult to understand because they’re not common chemicals often. The second is that the FDA doesn’t require disclosure of many ingredients that might be lurking in those cosmetics because they simply don’t. The FDA doesn’t require any disclosure of ingredients under 1%, which can include parabens and many other things you might be trying to avoid.

You can game the system by using a lesser known name for the same ingredient. And since there’s not enough regulation to catch those slights of hand, they get away with it and then you pick up a product that you think is clean, they’re hiding stuff inthe word perfume or under 1% of the product, they don’t have to disclose or in a poetic use of a different term for an ingredient you might be trying to avoid and you’re stuck in the same situation – not to be dire about it, but that’s the fact.

DEBRA: No, I understand because I see this in every field. It’s not just cosmetics. In food, they don’t have to list the ingredients on ingredients. So for example, if you were buying, say, frozen quiche and it says it’s got eggs in it and ham, they don’t need to tell you all the additives that they put in the ham. The nitrates and everything that’s in the ham because all you need to do is list the ingredients. That’s a big situation like that in food.

But for me, I just eliminated all processed food entirely. I only eat things that I cut myself from the actual food that I can see the whole food in my hand and then I prepare it because who knows what’s in those other things?

But when it comes to cosmetics, you have beautiful cosmetics and a consumer wants to be able to buy those cosmetics – in our culture, it’s considered to be a good thing to enhance the way we look by putting cosmetics on our faces – if we don’t understand what those ingredients are, we don’t have a company that we can trust or that companies can’t be trusted because they’re not talking about their ingredients or they don’t have that ethics to be life-enhancing, that they’re just doing what’s the standard thing, then the consumers just don’t know.

I used to think quite innocently that I can just look on the label and choose the ones that didn’t have toxic ingredients. I’ll just find one without toxic ingredients and choose the ones that don’t have it. It’s all these little things about how they don’t have to put it on the label or it’s a trade secret. What we need to do is we need to get rid of all that mystery around the ingredients. And I think it’s going to start happening because businesses who have nothing to hide are going to just disclose.

KRISTINE ADAMS: Yes. And it’s interesting, we are certified by Leaping Bunny, which is part of the Humane Society and Anti-Vivisection Society. It’s a cute, little leaping bunny logo that actually certifies as cruelty-free. But it does in a much more intense way than PETA.

We just got audited, so I know this intimately. They look at every single product that you make and every single ingredient and they want a statement. So we have to go back for every ingredient that we used to that manufacturer that made that iron oxide or whatever ingredient we’re using and get a statement from them swearing that they are not testing at any point this ingredient on animals. So it’s not only our end product. It’s also every ingredient every step of the chain.

And it’s interesting that there is certification available that is that intense because PETA is not, but to give those that are very interested in making sure their products are cruelty-free, that peace of mind, that there’s not something similar for humans, that there’s not like human cruelty-free certification that we could get that has the same level of integrity and intensity as the Leaping Buddy certification.

DEBRA: It just doesn’t exist right now. I’m going to say this really fast because we’re going to run out of time really quickly here. A lot of the behind-the-scenes GotoWebinar and things like this that people within industry are talking, there’s [inaudible 00:49:39] where somebody has compiled the toxicity information about ingredients that all companies can go to.

Everybody has to do their own research from square one to figure out what the toxic ingredients are and that’s part of the problem.

I’m thankful that you joined me today, Kristine. Thank you so much. I hope we’ll talk again.

KRISTINE ADAMS: Bye bye. Yes, thank you. Thank you very much. Great talking to you.

DEBRA: You’re welcome. This is Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. Tune in tomorrow.