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My guest Jai McFall is the owner of Organic Living for All, my local organic nursery and garden center here in Florida. Jai grew up on an organic farm, where her family grew fruits, vegetables, meat, eggs, and other farm products. They baked all their own breads, pie’s cakes, and cookies. They canned fruits, vegetables, jams, jellies, and pickles. Jai is a Master Gardener in Michigan and Florida as well as an organic, edible landscape designer. She does everything from full service landscaping to providing healthy plants and soil amendments so customers become able to grow healthy, nutritious and nutrient-dense food in their own back yards. Under Jai’s direction, I have actually been able to grow tasty vegetables in soil that is basically beach sand. Weekends you’ll find her giving classes and tours at her garden center while serving the most delicious iced tea made with herbs from her garden, including naturally sweet stevia. We’ll be talking about why you should grow your own food as well as how.





Dirty Garden Secrets Revealed: What They Don’t Want You to Know

Host: Debra Lynn Dadd
Guest: Jai McFall

Date of Broadcast: June 06, 2013

DEBRA: Hi, I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. And this is Toxic Free Talk Radio.

You know, every day, when I listen to that song, it always puts me in a good mood because each of us can be a point of light, making the world a better place in the choices that we make every day. And here on this show, we’re talking about how to thrive in a toxic world where we can be well and prosperous and healthy and productive and anything else we want because we’re not being affected by toxic chemicals in the world. And they can be in consumer products. They can be in the environment. They can even be in our bodies.

And here, on this show, we talk about how you can find safe alternatives that don’t have toxic chemicals in them. You can do things yourself that aren’t toxic and how you can remove toxic chemicals from your body.

So, there’s lots of things we can do to be points of light and make our lives better and the world better.

Today, we’re going to be talking about growing our own organic food. And I have a wonderful guest for you. But before we get into that, I wanted to just read you a quote from David Masumoto who grows and sells very high quality produce in California.

And here’s what he says. He says:

“[Grandma Rose] considers homegrown produce superior to anything store-bought. A neighbor’s gift of garden peas is welcomed at meals and bartered goods beans for a granddaughter’s babysitting services achieve special homegrown status.

She values knowing where foods come from and who’s responsible for them. She honors them by attaching names to dishes.

Around the dinner table, I can hear, ‘Please pass Glady’s squash’ or ‘little John’s deer venison sausage.’ Even my California raisins have a place in the table after Marci and I were married. She called them ‘Marci’s raisins.’”

And I totally know what he’s talking about because when I lived in California, I lived in the western part of Marin County which is just across the Golden Gate Bridge from San Francisco. And the eastern part is all suburbia, and then there’s a range of hills, foothills. And then, the western part is all little villages dotted in between farms and forests. And so we have a lot of organic farmers up there.

But also, everybody grew their own vegetables in their backyard. And everybody was always sharing, like tomato seeds. I grew tomatoes that were from my neighbor’s seeds. So they were tomatoes that was a variety that was just from a little place where we lived. And we had another neighbor who—every single house in the whole village had his raspberry canes. And we all knew it.

It was so nice to know that the produce was coming from the backyard, and that my friends and neighbors were contributing the plants. It was very much a feeling of connection, that we were all doing this together. A really wonderful experience!

Here in Florida, however, it’s been a lot more difficult because, basically, I’ve got beach sand. And so I was very happy to get acquainted with my guest, Jai McFall, the owner of Organic Living for All. She’s my local organic nursery and garden center person here in Florida. She grew up on an organic farm, but I’m going to let her tell her story.

Welcome to Toxic Free Talk Radio, Jai.

JAI MCFALL: Thank you, Debra. Well, in the 60s…

DEBRA: Yeah, go ahead.

JAI MCFALL: In the ‘60s, I lived with my family up in Michigan on a 10-acre farm. And we grew peaches and grapes and raspberries and cherries. And we raised all our own meat. So we had cows and chickens and goats and pigs and rabbits. And we had a huge garden down front that was in an old swamp land. It was beautiful, black dirt. And we grew all our vegetable.

And we canned our jams, our jellies, our pickles, our sauerkraut. We had two freezers, one full of fruit and vegetables, one full of all the different kind of meats and a big pantry. So we ate really, really good.

Then in the ‘70s, I studied nursing and alternative medicine. But I decided I didn’t really want to be a doctor or a nurse. So I worked at food coops teaching people about nutrition and how to be healthier.

And the sad part about it was seeing people get sicker from eating as opposed to getting healthier. My three aunts were obese, and I watched them die of diabetes and heart failure and kidney failure due to poor food choices.


JAI MCFALL: So, in ’86, I bought the farm from my parents, and I started Jai’s Organic Edible Landscaping. And I’ve been an organic edible landscape designer for over 25 years now helping people grow their own healthy food.

DEBRA: Isn’t it a wonderful thing to do that?

JAI MCFALL: It is! I love it. There’s nothing better than when people come to me and they go, “I am feeling so much better because I’m eating food from my garden every day.”

DEBRA: I can really tell. You know me, but I want to tell our listeners just a little bit about my background in growing.

In California, it was easy to grow. I had quite a lot of things. I remember I was growing heirloom tomatoes. And my house was on a hillside, at the bottom of a hill. There was this big hill, and then my house was at the bottom. And across the street was a creek. And so it was this split-level house. It had the house on top on top of a garage. And so there was a deck on the side, and then there was a flat place where we had the garden.

It was 15 ft. from the garden soil to the deck. And it had lattice all across it. And every year, I would plant six minimum tomato plants. And by the time the summer was over, and we had eaten more tomatoes than we possibly could—and there were still tomatoes, tomatoes, tomatoes of all kinds… delicious—by the fall, those heirloom tomato plants were crawling all over my deck. They were 15 ft. high.

JAI MCFALL: Yeah, that’s cool.

DEBRA: It was wonderful! We had tomatoes until the first frost. And then, there were no more tomatoes. So we had a good six months of tomatoes. And all I did was dig a hole and put a fish head in it. And that was it!

And I remember, one of the best things I ever had was leeks and potatoes that I grew from my garden. I dug up the potatoes, and I steam them. I put organic butter on them and sauteed leeks. And oh, my god, was that a good meal?

And so I was able to grow all kinds of things. And then, I moved to Florida. And the situation is very different here. I still don’t quite have it down because the seasons are all backwards from California. I don’t want to say Florida is backwards. It’s just different. It’s just a different orientation. And there’s like really no soil.

But with Jai’s help, this year, for the first time, I actually grew some beautiful lettuces, I grew some tomatoes (which I haven’t been able to grow at all), and it was as abundant as California yet, but I did manage to actually get the plants to grow. And I got a good three dozen tomatoes of each plant which is good for my Florida soil.

But I’ve seen other gardens that she’s done. And I’ve seen her nursery. And I just see that I could just make my garden as beautiful, lush, bountiful, and abundant cornucopia of thing to eat.

And I also grow parsley, […] and herbs and sweet basil and these various things.

So, it’s a matter of learning what to do, and then actually doing it.

So, we’re going to hear a lot more from Jai about why we should be growing our own food and how to do it and some special products that she has right after this break.


DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. And I have one more commercial for you.

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This marvelous cookware is called Xtrema. You can buy their skillets, woks, bake ware, sauce pans and sauce pots at Use coupon code DEBRA10 to save up to 10%. That’s

And also, before we get into talking with Jai again, I also wanted to just let all of you know that you may have heard this afternoon on the news that tropical storm Andrea is all over Florida. And it’s about to hit landfall at any time. And right in the middle of this, we’ve got rain, we’ve got wind. We’ve just had a power outage right before the show.

So, if you lose me, just hold because I can come right back. That might happen; it might not. But both Jai and I, we’re not far away from each other. So either one of us might get lost. But we’ll be back. So just hold on.

Okay! So, we’re talking with Jai McFall, owner of Organic Living for All. It’s

And Jai, you do these really wonderful workshops on Saturdays. And I have been to a number of them. I’d especially like you to tell us some of the facts that you’ve given at your workshops about why growing your own food is better and how it’s different from store-bought food.

JAI MCFALL: I’d love to do that. Here’s some facts that many people are unaware of.

In 1936, the US government tested soil throughout the country. And they released a document that reads:

“Most of us are suffering from certain diet deficiencies which cannot be remedied until depleted soils from which our food comes are brought into proper mineral balance. The alarming fact is that food now being raised on million of acres of land that no longer contain enough minerals is starving us no matter how much of them we eat.”

“Lacking vitamins, a system can make use of minerals. But lacking minerals, vitamins are useless.”

So that part is quite scary because if the minerals are not in the soil—and the definition of minerals are elements essential for life, essential for all life. If it’s not in the soil, that means it’s not in the food. And every function in our body depends upon minerals.

So you can take the most expensive, best vitamins in the world. But if you don’t have the minerals, then they’re not going to do you any good.

DEBRA: Well, can’t you just take a mineral supplement?

JAI MCFALL: You can. But if they’re man-made, who knows if there’s a correct balance and if there’s the correct kinds. A lot of times, they add iron to food. And that’s not what we can absorb. This is like metal iron.

So, you want to get your minerals from your food. That’s the best.

Remember, Hippocrates said, “Let thy food be thy medicine. Let thy medicine be thy food.”

DEBRA: Yes, I completely agree with this. I completely agree. And it does need to come from food because if you just take minerals on their own, and they’re not assimilated by the plant, your body doesn’t assimilate them in the same way. It’s just like eating rocks.

JAI MCFALL: Exactly!

DEBRA: And so, when we grow food in our own backyards, we can have control over what’s going on in the soil, and then how the plant is nourished, and then how that nourishment goes into our own bodies. That’s basically the idea, right?

JAI MCFALL: Exactly!

So, shortly after this statement was released, World War II broke out. And at the end of World War II, they had warehouses full of bomb-making equipment left over, and they needed to liquidate it. But they couldn’t find anybody to buy bomb-making equipment.

So, one day, some soldiers were walking through the compound, and they noticed some barrels are being stored outside, and they were leaky and the weeds were growing huge. So they said, “Good! Let’s sell this to the farmers.”

Now, Debra, you know how many minerals it takes to make a bomb, right?

DEBRA: How many? Three, right?

JAI MCFALL: Right! Nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium. And those were man-made from petroleum products. They’re not mined from the earth.

So, they started promoting this to the farmers. So let’s say we have good soil, and we plant our plant, and you go to Home Depot to buy fertilizer, they’re going to sell you a bag that says 10:10:10 or 10:20:10. And 10:10:10 means it’s equal parts nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium man-made from petroleum products.

DEBRA: And it’ll say NPK.

JAI MCFALL: It’ll say NPK.

And plants actually need how many minerals in the soil to be healthy? Do you remember that, Debra?

DEBRA: I don’t know, but it’s the number of minerals that exists on earth. And I know, let’s say, on Himalayan salt, there’s I think 87 minerals or something like that. It’s a much larger number than three.

JAI MCFALL: Exactly! The research that I’ve done shows that it should be 90, 91 or 92 minerals. And so when you’re planting and you’re using a fertilizer that has three man-made minerals from petroleum products, those plants are going to be weak and unhealthy. And the first thing that Mother Nature does is it sends in the bugs. So then we spray poison on it, and then Mother

Nature sends in the molds, the mildews, the funguses, the diseases, the weeds, anything to take out those unhealthy foods because she doesn’t want us eating unhealthy foods.

So, nowadays, the food in the grocery store is so full of toxins that a group, the Environmental Working Group, actually releases a list of the produce that’s not organic rated from the most toxic to the least toxic. And they labeled the 12 most toxis the Dirty Dozen, and they labeled the least toxic, fifteen, the Safest 15.

DEBRA: Tell us what those are. Oh, […] we need to wait until after the break.

JAI MCFALL: Okay, we’ll cover that after.

DEBRA: Yeah, okay. You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. And I’m here with Jai McFall, owner of Organic Living for All. Her website is And you can find out more about Toxic Free Talk Radio at We’ll be right back.


DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. And I’m here with my guest, Jai McFall, owner of Organic Living for All. And we’re here in the first tropical storm of the season in Florida, tropical storm Andrea. And we still have our power, so we’re still here with you. And Jai was going to tell us about the Dirty Dozen and the Clean 15.

JAI MCFALL: Yes! So, many times, people go to the grocery store, and they think they’re making the wisest decisions when they’re buying an organic produce. But I want to go over this list with you.

The Dirty Dozen actually contains 47 to 67 toxins that cannot be washed off, peeled off or soaked off. This year’s list, apples was number one, celery is number two, then peaches, strawberries, domestic blueberries, nectarines, cherries, bell peppers.

And they lumped spinach, kale and collard greens as one; potatoes, imported grapes and lettuce. Those are many people’s favorite foods!


JAI MCFALL: And I’m not trying to get anybody to stop eating fruits and vegetables. I just want you to look at the toxins in these and switch either from this list to the Safest list or to organics.

DEBRA: And I think it’s really important that people hear what you’re saying because, usually, when we get nutrition advice, the advice goes something like, “Eat more greens” or “An apple a day keeps the doctor away.” But if you’re eating just standard produce from the supermarket, you are getting multiple numbers of toxic chemicals as Jai just said. You can’t wash them out. You can’t cut them off. They don’t come out. These toxic chemicals are causing more harm than nutrients that are in the produce.

And this particular produce may not even have as much nutrients. There’s been many studies that show that organic produce has much more nutrition than the standard supermarket.

So, organic, organic, organic… go ahead! Yeah. What is the real thing?

JAI MCFALL: If you switch from this Dirty Dozen—and you can find this list on my website. So if you switch from the Dirty Dozen to the Safest 15, you can reduce the amount of pesticides going into your body by 92%. That’s significant.

DEBRA: It is!

JAI MCFALL: The list is onions, avocadoes, pineapple, mango, and then sweet corn. Well, 88% to 92% of the sweet corn grown across the United States is genetically-modified and should be avoided. If you don’t know what that means, you can go to my website and get more information. So it’s really, really important to know what that is and to avoid anything that is genetically modified.

DEBRA: I agree.

JAI MCFALL: I’ll continue the list—peas, asparagus, kiwi, cabbage, eggplant, cantaloupe, watermelon, grapefruit, sweet potatoes and sweet onions.

Now, I always tell people that buying organic is always the best because you’re going to have to pay the farmer now or pay the doctor later. And it’s going to be much less expensive and much less painful to pay the farmer now than the pay the doctor later.

But that’s one of the reasons that I teach people how to grow their own food. Even if you’re buying the best organic produce on the planet, here in Florida, there’s not a lot of organics being grown. So a lot of it comes from California or Mexico or South

America or even China. And we don’t even know what the standards are in other countries. But if it was grazed in California, it’s been ship for at least a week. And we know the nutritional value of foods decreases every day after it’s picked.

So, ideally, we’re growing it ourselves, and we’re eating it fresh every single day.

And I actually teach a workshop…

DEBRA: Well, I wanted to just emphasize that that is the most nutritional—the best thing for your health is to start out by eating organic food.

One of the products that I recommend very highly and take myself is a set of nutritional supplements from Touchstone Essentials where they have their own farms, the soil is mineralized, they pick the produce. And it immediately gets processed at low temperatures into a powder that goes into a capsule.

And people are having phenomenal success in improve t heir health by having that food.

And this company was founded on the idea that the number one thing you need for health is this fresh right off the plants kinds of food. And that’s what you’re talking about here also, Jai. These supplements are great for people who can’t grow it for their backyard. But the number one thing to do is to grow it yourself so that you can just walk outside and pick the tomato off the plant and put it in your mouth, or walk outside and cut the lettuce leaves and eat that salad. And there’s nothing better for your health than that.

JAI MCFALL: Nothing. And the Soil Preparation Workshop that I teach actually teaches you the four different products that you need to add to your soil, which I don’t have time to go through in detail, but our number one product is called Garden Magic no. 1 because people claim it’s magic when they add it to the soil. And it has 91 minerals mined from an ancient seabed out in Nevada. And it is truly phenomenal.

You’ve used it, Debra, right?

DEBRA: Yes, I have. Actually, I’ve used all your products. And we do have time for you to talk about all of them. And if the break interrupts you, we’ll just continue after the break. So go on with the next one. Tell us all about your products.

JAI MCFALL: Yes, okay. That’s the plant food. You put this in, it’s a whole food for the plant. It’s got the 91 minerals.

Then you know how we have the good bacteria in our gut, and that’s our immune system. Well, those are supposed to be in the soil too. You’ve eaten fresh blueberries and fresh grapes straight off the vine, right, Debra?


JAI MCFALL: Well, that silver sheen on the outside are the microorganisms. So, when you’re picking fresh fruit, it has the microorganisms right on it. You don’t want to wipe it off or wash it off. You just eat it fresh. And you’re getting those microorganisms.

Now, microorganisms are alive. And they can’t live without minerals as well. So when you add the minerals and the microorganisms together to good soil, which I will also teach you how to create, then you have a living community with the worms, the insects, the microorganisms and the plants all working together. And you don’t get bugs, and you don’t get diseases. You just get nutrient-dense, healthy food that tastes phenomenal because minerals are what gives food the flavor.

Then the third product that we have…

DEBRA: You’re going to tell us about the third product after the break.

You’re listenign to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. And I’m here with Jai McFall of Organic Living for All. You can go to her website at and find out about her products, about pesticides. You can look at beautiful pictures of her organic gardens. She has lots of ideas! And we’ll be back after this message.


DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. A blustery tropical storm afternoon in Florida. And I’m here with my guest also in Florida, Jai McFall, owner of Organic Living for all. And she’s at

And before the break, we were talking about your amazing soil amendments. So continue with those.

JAI MCFALL: Alright! Well, when I was up in Michigan, I always had these minerals and microorganisms to the soil, and my gardens were great. But when I moved down here, my first two gardens were miserable failures, and I had to figure out how to do it. So I did.

And at first, I was just using the minerals and the microorganisms. And my gardens were doing great. My peach tree went from 5 ft. tall to 12 ft. tall and 8 ft. wide in a year and a half, producing delicious, phenomenal-tasting, juicy peaches. Do you remember that, Debra?

DEBRA: I do, I do.

JAI MCFALL: And so that’s what I was using, those two products, for the first two years. And then, I noticed that I was getting tomatoes, and they tasted really good, but I never got anything like I did out in Michigan. And other people were saying the same thing.

So, I started doing some research what did tomatoes want. Well, they want a pH of 6.0 to 6.5. And most of the soil here is 7.0 or higher. They want more calcium. And they’re very susceptible to the bad nematodes in the soil going into their roots and sucking out all their energy and dying.

So, I did some research, “Well, how do I handle this?” Well, I found out that bat guano—and those of you who don’t know what guano means, it means poop. Bat guano actually lowers the pH of the soil. It kills the bad nematodes. And it has lots of calcium.

So, I bought 1800 lbs. of bat guano about a year and a half ago.


JAI MCFALL: And we started doing an experiment with it. And it was amazing! The tomatoes, the plants themselves grew really fast, they were filled with fruit, they were delicious. It was amazing how much production we got out of the tomatoes, kind of like what you did out in California. And everybody was really happy with that.

And then, I started experimenting with other plants. And everything loves it! So rather than calling it tomato food, which I thought was what it was going to be called, we mixed it with worm casting (so we get the worm eggs and the other benefits of worm castings) as well as organic blood meal, and we call this super food for the plants.

And if you come over to my garden center, and get a garden tour, you get to have a glass of iced tea made fresh from the garden as well as taste the plants, and you will be able to tell the difference.

DEBRA: You really can, you really can.

I think that probably most people listening—although I can’t say that for sure. But I think that probably most people in this day and age have tasted organic food versus supermarket food and can tell the difference in how it tastes. I think most people in the world today have not tasted food grown in an organic garden with proper soil amendments so that it’s a healthy, intensely nutritious food.

And you can not only taste the difference, but you can feel the vitality. Your body feels different just putting the food in your body. Anybody who loves good food will love just the taste of this food. You don’t have to do anything to it, just pick a leaf, and put it in your mouth. It’s really amazing.

JAI MCFALL: Absolutely! That’s true.

So, those are the first three products that we had. And that was all I was going to have thinking that that was everything. Then about a year ago, I discovered about an ancient secret from 6000 years ago that the Mayan Indian developed called bio char.

And it holds five times as much moisture as regular soil. It absorbs the nutrients and it releases them when the plants need it, as well as having lots and lots of carbon in the soil.

So, when you add that as well as the other products, it’s amazing. We do a lot of experiments showing the difference what you get with it and what you get without it.

DEBRA: I bought all those amendments. And I put them in my raised beds. And I had a much different garden last spring than I had before. Now, it’s summer time and not much grows in the summer here in Florida. Our big season is in the winter time.

But when it gets to be approaching fall, I’m going to be back with Jai and her nursery and finding out what I should be planting, so that this year, I can just have an abundant garden through the fall and winter and spring.

Although I’m sure if I came to the nursery now, you’d tell me what I should be planting now, right?

JAI MCFALL: Yes, there are actually a lot of products from around the world that love, love, love this heat like New Zealand spinach, African spinach, longevity spinach. There’s quite a few things. There’s an Egyptian lettuce that I use in place of lettuce for the summer. And all of these love the heat as well as many of the herbs. And peppers of course. So, there’s a lot you could grow in the summer.

When I first moved down here, people would say, “You can’t grow anything in the summer” or “You can’t grow food down here.”

But there’s even okra and corn and several other things that will just do great down here in the summer.

DEBRA: Well, I think that a lot of it has to do—when you start growing things in our own little micro-climates and little micro-systems, we need to be learning to eat different foods that we don’t see in the supermarket.

And I think that that’s been part of it for me. I know that I see these strange things in the nursery and I go, “Well, gee, do I want to eat that? How does it taste?”, et cetera.

And one of the things that Jai does really well is that she has this garden parties and she has people come and prepare these unusual foods. And one of my favorite things that she makes is she just goes through the garden and she gets leaves of different sorts, different herbs, different edible plants. And then, she just starts piling them up and puts a little parmesan cheese and olive oil in the middle and wraps it all up in this little herb bite. It’s so delicious. And her tea is so delicious.

It’s just getting into starting to think in terms of having your garden, eating what belongs in your place, the nutrition of what grows here, and enjoying doing something that is not the standard industrial supermarket kind of thing.

Jai, in the last few minutes, I just want to ask you what are your recommendations for people who live busy lives and don’t always have time to garden. I think that that’s what happened to me. I set up my garden, I had some success with it, and then I got really busy, and it got to be the next season. And now I need to figure it out again.

But I feel really inspired that I want to eat out of my garden. And I need to set that up as part of my life. So what’s your suggestion for how people can do that?

JAI MCFALL: Well, an easy way to do it is to build a raised bed, like say it’s only 8 x 4 ft. That’s 32 plants that you can grow up. And then, you can actually grow carrots and beets and radishes growing down. So, you can actually grow a lot of food in an 8 x 4 bed. And when it’s raised, it gets less weeds. The rabbits and some of the pest can’t get in it. And it’s easy to harvest.

You just walk out to it, and harvest it every day.

DEBRA: So, when you say raised, how high is raised?

JAI MCFALL: Two feet.

DEBRA: Two feet, yeah. We’re not talking about six inches.

JAI MCFALL: No, no, no. Six inches is not enough dirt to grow plants in healthy. So two feet tall, and you can grow all kinds of things. It’s easy to harvest because you’re not having to bend over.

And we could even build that for you. We could maintain it for you. Whatever people want is what we do. And I do consultations if people don’t know what to do with their yard. I’ll come over, spend a couple of hours with you asking you lots of questions so we can figure out what exactly you want to grow and do with your yard. And then, I lay out a plan for you. And we can do it in stages. I work with you until you get that yard the way you want it to be.

DEBRA: That’s so good. What about people who don’t live in Florida? Anybody can order online. They can order your soil amendments.

JAI MCFALL: Yeah, we ship them all over the United States. So that’s not a problem. And I do have videos on my website on how to prepare your soil. And you can always call and ask questions. But there’s probably enough on my website that you could learn from it.

And you can always look in your neighborhood or in your town for a CSA. CSA means community supported agriculture which is like where somebody grows all the food, you buy a share, and you get fresh food every week. Those are popping up everywhere. And we will be starting one of those hopefully in the next year here.

DEBRA: That will be so great.

And also, people can look for an organic nursery and garden center like yours in their local community. You’ve done such a great job of having all the soil amendments, but also all the plants in that you figured out what grows here. And if you look for your local organic nursery, they should know what grows there too. They’d be much more experienced with that than if you went to, say, a home improvement center.

Well, that’s all the time we have. Thank you so much for being with me today. This is Toxic Free Talk Radio.

JAI MCFALL: Thank you, Debra.

DEBRA: You can find out more at And if you’ve enjoyed this show, please tell your friends!


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