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bob-kosbergToday my guest is Bob Kosberg, Founder of Tears of Joy, a fragrance-free dating service. We’ll be talking about living fragrance-free and finding others to love and live with who also live or want to live fragrance-free. (I’ll tell my stories too about getting friends and loved ones to be fragrance-free around me). A long ago Chicago to LA transplant, Bob worked for 25 years in real estate as a broker, and a facilities manager until his Muscular Dystrophy symptoms and Multiple Chemical Sensitivities caused him to retreat from the every day working world. Seeking both Eastern and Western medical help, he has succumbed to many allergy tests and remedies and other treatments to no avail. That is when he began to research the toxic chemicals in all of our daily personal care and cleaning products and inspired him to create an informational website as well as a “dating” community based on living a fragrance and chemical free lifestyle. Tearsofjoy.singles is actually a sanctuary for all types of people, singles and couples and families, seeking fragrance-free companionship. Bob is happiest when he is outside in the freshest air possible riding his specially designed recumbent bicycle or raising awareness about his cause. www.tearsofjoy.singles (This organization no longer exists)

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transcript

TOXIC FREE TALK RADIO
Fragrance-Free Companionship and Dating

Host: Debra Lynn Dadd
Guest: Bob Kosberg

Date of Broadcast: June 04, 2015

DEBRA: Hi, I’m Debra Lynn Dadd, and you’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio where we talk about how to thrive in a toxic world and live toxic free. It is Thursday, June 14, 2015, and it’s once again a very beautiful day in Clearwater, Florida. Summer time here, lots of sunshine.

And today we’re going to have something completely different. Well, not completely different. It’s a subject we’ve talked about before. But we’re going to talk about it in a completely different way. I just need to adjust my sound here for a second. Uh-oh, dead air. I want to make sure I could hear my guest. Okay, I think that that’s fine.

So my guest today is Bob Kosberg. He’s the founder of Tears of Joy, which is a fragrance-free dating service. And it’s not just for dates, romantic dates, but for any kind of companionship. If you’re a person who wants to live without toxic chemicals and especially wants to live without fragrance, Bob has put together a service where you can meet people. You can even go to the website and just type in your information if you want to have a friend, if you want to have someone to talk to. It doesn’t even have to be in your area. You could e-mail each other, have some personal support, make a new friend.

I just think that this is great. I actually have some stories about this but I want to introduce my guest first. Hi, Bob.

BOB KOSBERG: Hi, Debra.

DEBRA: How are you doing? You’re in California, right?

BOB KOSBERG: I am and like in Florida, it’s always a beautiful day here.

DEBRA: Yes. I used to live in California, so I know that it’s always a beautiful day in California.

BOB KOSBERG: From coast to coast you went.

DEBRA: Yes, from one beautiful place to another beautiful place.

BOB KOSBERG: Thank you for your inviting me today. I appreciate it.

DEBRA: You’re welcome. First, tell us how you got interested in fragrance-free. I know you have a lot of information about why we should be living fragrance-free, but why is that a concern for you?

BOB KOSBERG: Well, let me just tell you the story of myself and how it happened. I guess, like many people, I went from showering with Irish Spring and using Old Spice in honor of my grandfather. And then I started becoming chemical and fragrance sensitive. It seemed like a slow transition at first. And then, it went from aware and sensitive to full-blown, multiple chemical sensitivity.

For me, it got so bad that I went through a throat doctor specialist who, with a very long camera down my throat, showed me it was half-closed from my most recent chemical exposure. So when I’m around chemicals, Debra, it takes seconds for my throat to close. It happened to some like, “Gee, I’m glad I’m chemical sensitive.” Someone could be behind me and then all of a sudden, I can’t breathe. I’ve got to move.

So when I first noticed this, I thought because I have FSH muscular dystrophy and that I fight pain fatigue all the time, I thought my body’s defenses were on overload and just couldn’t handle the chemicals. So I saw an allergist to try and control the headaches, the nausea, the inability to focus. That’s what happens when we’re around these chemicals that bother us and these fragrances. And then I said, “Okay, I got to get more serious.”

So I read every article written on multiple chemical sensitivity and chemical exposure. I googled everything. Read many books, the books, Get a Whiff of This by Connie Pitts, Not Just a Pretty Face by Stacy Malkan, The Body Toxic by Nena Baker, Poison Profits by Philip and Alice Shabecoff and Silent Spring by Rachel Carson.

DEBRA: And you didn’t read my books?

BOB KOSBERG: I look forward to reading your books because it’s funny, I just found you and I’m so excited to be here. It happened so quick.

DEBRA: Thank you.

BOB KOSBERG: So I haven’t had that opportunity. And though ‘m still not a chemist or an expert on toxic chemicals, from everything that’s been written, I think we all need to be concerned and really stop using these products including fragrance ones made with these toxic chemicals. So here in our home, we’ve remove everything toxic is possible, pretty much reduce our circle of friends to just a few ad lived as healthy as possible. And that really took me to developing Tears of Joy, which was my wife’s brainchild.

She came up with the concept initially. It just came to her one day. She said, “Let’s do this.” And I had a little [inaudible 00:06:23].

DEBRA: Well, it’s very interesting to me because when I first saw your website, when you first brought it to me, I thought that you had been motivated to do this because you were looking for someone yourself. So it’s even more interesting to me that you’re not doing this because you’re looking to find somebody that you want to help others find companionship.

BOB KOSBERG: It’s all about others.

DEBRA: I can see that.

BOB KOSBERG: It’s all about others, yes. And I actually have a—I guess the fire within me to win the battle against these toxic chemicals and fragrances is the story I have. Whenever you’re read to hear that, then I’ll tell you and your audience.

DEBRA: Go ahead. Tell it now.

BOB KOSBERG: And we’ve seen this, I think, just recently on your site, reading some of the – there was an article on fragrances, laundry or whatever it was. So we do a lot of bike riding, a lot of elliptical riding, a lot of trench riding. So we’re always out there. We will ride by homes and buildingsWithin 50 yards from every direction, smell the fabric softener and detergents – 50 yards away. Just imagine, 50 yards.

So now, we have this brand new baby we’ve brought home after a few days in the hospital. Parents are excited. Brand new baby. So all sheets, clothes, blankets are washed in heavy fragrance detergents and fabric softeners. And even Febreze has gotten into the next—they’re adding their fragrances to these detergents, more fragrances. So the family’s got all these brand new baby clothes and sheets and blankets washed in all this.

So we dressed the baby in the newly-washed, highly fragranced clothes and lay it in a basinet with the same highly fragranced sheets and blankets. Most people cover the top of the basinet so the baby could sleep and not get the light in their eyes. I’m not quite sure how the baby actually breathes. I know myself if I was in a bigger basinet in that same situation, I couldn’t breathe. I would probably die.

So now the baby has slept all night breathing these – what all these articles say (it’s not me, I’m not the expert) are toxic fragrances, all these fragrances made with toxic chemicals.

So the first morning at home and every morning after, mom and dad get ready for work. So eight fragrance products on average for the new dads including hair, aftershave, cologne, underarm, et cetera. And since he has this big meeting, Axe Spray all over. So he smells really good because he thinks that’s really important. Twelve products for mom on average, creams, makeup, perfume, hair products, soap, et cetera.

So now, each parent wants to hold the baby to say goodbye. So first, the baby’s been smothered in all these laundry products. Now, the baby’s face is pressed against the chest, his face in the shoulders of mom and dad, impossible for the baby to breathe as it absorbs all these newly-applied fragrances.

So now before the parents go to work, the nanny, wearing her combination of 12 fragranced products, takes over and holds the baby and thus, the same effect.

So now, let’s add it up. The baby’s first morning at home, two days of light, it’s exposed to 35+ fragranced products, some maybe as many as 200 different chemicals. I see in articles where they’re made with 800, one fragranced product.

DEBRA: We need to go break. Hold on, Bob. Wait just a second. We need to go to break. So I want to hear every word that you have to say on this subject. So let’s go to break and then you can continue when we come back.

You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd, and my guest today is Bob Kosberg. He’s the founder of Tears of Joy, a fragrance-free dating service, well, companionship service, dates or friends. And he’s at TearsofJoy.singles.

We’ll be right back.

= COMMERCIAL BREAK =

DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd, and my guest today is Bob Kosberg. He’s the founder of Tears of Joy, a fragrance-free dating service. And that’s at TearsofJoy.singles (this organization no longer exists). And I just want to make sure that I say that even if you’re not interested in dating or finding a friend, you should absolutely go to his website because he’s got so much information about fragrance, if you’re interested in fragrances. And he’s especially got something—I love this, Bob. I totally love it. It’s called The Fragrance Meter.

Make sure you just go play with the Fragrance Meter. I just entered some random answers during the break because I wanted to see what it was actually going to do. So first you check the number of fragrance. There are all these fragranced products that you could check off if you use those fragranced products. And then there are some questions for you. There’s actually a meter and it’s got a little vial that will go up from the green area to the red area to tell you how dangerous it is.

And so I entered a whole bunch. I answered yes to all the fragranced things.

BOB KOSBERG: The message you got something was something.

DEBRA: Yes because—it said, “Warning.” I couldn’t even read the message because the siren came on. It was really quite dramatic. Very dramatic. You got A+ for creative presentation of the information.

BOB KOSBERG: It took me a long time to communicate that to the web developers. “This is the concept. This is what I want. Come on, come one. Get it for me.”

DEBRA: Yes. It’s really quite dramatic and I think that it really shows—I’m going to send people to this page because it really gives you an opportunity to assess how much fragrance you’re really being exposed to.

BOB KOSBERG: Absolutely.

DEBRA: They might stop wearing perfume. I actually—there’s a public building that I go to. And as an unusual thing, people are actually asked to not wear perfume in this public building. And everybody knows that and nobody wears perfume. Nobody wears aftershave.

But the other day, I noticed as I’m getting increasing—my perceptions are changing actually, and I usually have a really good nose but I was being more aware than usual. And I just took a breath and I went, “Oh, my god. There are all these people who are not wearing perfume but there is so much detergent and fragrance in this room.”

BOB KOSBERG: To me, Downy might be the worst smell in the world. You don’t have to wear a perfume or cologne. I know one of the articles on our site says the laundry room is the most toxic room in your house. Take it from that person.

DEBRA: I would absolutely agree with that. Absolutely agree with it. Anyway, you were telling us about the chemicals that go into making fragrances. Some of them have 800 different chemicals.

BOB KOSBERG: So we were with this brand new, two-day old baby, 35+ fragranced products (some made with 200 different chemicals and I’ve seen articles that say 800).

So we already know that 80,000 chemicals are untested and our government turned a blind eye and said, “Yes. That’s fine. Just move them in. We won’t do anything.” So 80,000 untested. But in the combinations from the 35 products and thousands of chemicals in the store, they’ll never be tested.

So forget that 80,000 haven’t been tested, put 30, put 50, put a hundred together. Who knows what it’s going to produce? It’s never been tested.

DEBRA: This is really the thing because we’re not exposed to chemicals one by one. We’re exposed to them in combination. And there are synergistic effects and you can never test the synergistic effects.

Many, many years ago, when I wrote my very first book, and I don’t have this test anymore, this particular study anymore, but there was a test that was done on rats, I think. Or mice. One of those laboratory animals. And they took three food additives, not even toxic chemicals, food additives, preservatives, artificial colors, artificial flavors. And things that people—this was back in the 70s. And so this was what people were eating then.

So they took these three food additives and they tested with one food additive and nothing happened. And then two food additives, the laboratory animals got sick. And three food additives, they died. You can go to any ordinary package, even today in the supermarket, and what you’re going to see is artificial colors and flavors and preservatives all together in the same package.

BOB KOSBERG: That’s right.

DEBRA: And we’re not even talking about formaldehyde. We’re not even talking about all the fragrance and chemicals. When you put them all together, they become very toxic. And so people say, “Well, this chemical was tested and there are no health effects.” But you can’t test the health effects of what you—they can do a bout of tests on the laboratory animals but you can’t identify all the chemicals that you’re being exposed to today and have them tested together, and then have a different mix tomorrow. It just can’t be done. The only answer is to identify where these chemicals are that we know are harmful and remove them from your life.

BOB KOSBERG: Absolutely. So I don’t know how this baby can breathe. We know that autism, up from 1 in 500 to 1 in 88 just recently, and the movie, The Human Experiment, mentioned that. And I’m sure the numbers are worse.

To me, how can this be legal? To me, what this story just said is bringing home a new baby and constantly, non-stop, continue to blow cigarette smoke directly in the baby’s face—and that’s just a few chemicals. That doesn’t even come close to the chemicals this baby was exposed to because of what the parents did. I don’t know how this can happen. And there’s a song that I wrote that I’m looking for someone to write the music and find a singer, one of the lines in this song is, “Please help me stop the crying in hospital wings that soar high above.” Because to me, that’s where I’m at. I want to stop this with the new babies and the babies that aren’t born yet. And that’s what we’re trying to accomplish with Tear of Joy.

DEBRA: Good. I totally agree, totally aligned with you. You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd, and my guest today is Bob Kosberg. He’s the founder of Tears of Joy and the website is TearsofJoy.singles (this organization no longer exists). And if you go there, you can look for the Fragrance Meter and take a look and see what your fragrance case is.

We’ll be right back.

= COMMERCIAL BREAK =

DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd, and my guest today is Bob Kosberg. He’s the founder of Tears of Joy, a fragrance-free dating and companion service. And his website is TearsofJoy.singles (this organization no longer exists), where you can see the about-to-be famous Fragrance Meter.

I just think that that’s the best presentation of the fragrance free problem I’ve ever seen. It really is.

BOB KOSBERG: It gives them the advantage. That’s what I mean. My mom said, “I don’t wear products. I don’t wear products.” I said, “Mom, take the Fragrance Meter test.” She scored an 11. So you know what the message she got.

DEBRA: So let’s talk about fragrance-free and toxic-free living and relationships because that’s really what you’re addressing with your website. You have education about the problem but the solution that you’re offering is to help people have other people to be able to do this with.

I know that one of the things that I hear about so often is, “My husband is humoring me that he doesn’t believe it. I can’t get my husband to do this. I can’t get my wife to—doesn’t understand what’s going on with me.” I hear marriages breaking up because one or the other wants to live in a toxic-free way or a fragrance-free way, and the other person just can’t understand.

And I want to start this discussion by just telling you a little story about—well, I have two stories about this. The first one is that before I knew that I was chemically sensitive, I was engaged to a man who lived in a house that had been renovated—an old house in Berkeley, California that had been renovated into apartments. And it had a lot of toxic exposures including a freestanding heater with an actual, visible gas flame and it was giving off all kinds of combustion byproducts.

And we had a lot in common and we really loved each other but there were times when we would just erupt into these very emotional arguments. And I just couldn’t figure out what was going on with us. And eventually, we broke up. And I found out I was chemically sensitive and we had some conversations about it and I started working for a doctor who was treating people with chemical sensitivity. And one day, he walked right into my office and he said, “You know, I think all the problems we ever had in our relationship was because of the toxic chemicals in my apartment and I’m chemically sensitive too.”

And that was just so—it made such an impression on me because when you think about how people don’t get along and why they don’t get along, and how toxic chemicals and fragrances can affect your nervous system and your emotions and everything, and how much less difficult it would be to have a relationship if we just took all that away.

BOB KOSBERG: That’s right. Absolutely! One of the reasons that we put the site together and my wife and I went through that. Your story, it was the same thing. We shouldn’t have to explain it. We’re not the experts and we’re emotionally involved with this person.

So on the site, actually, on the sister site, ToxicChemicalsandFragrances.com, where the link is on TearsofJoy.singles (this organization no longer exists), I list many of the toxic chemical websites and resources to educate and inspire. Your link is on here, [inaudible 00:30:44] Association, the Campaign for Safe Cosmetics, Clean Indoor Air Campaign, Washington Toxic Coalition which lists things really, really organized, Rodeo Environmental Working Group, and the Chemical Sensitivity Foundation, and what is multiple chemical sensitivity.

And if someone is having a relationship problem, and they love that person and they want to be with that person, but they don’t seem to understand. You just need to point them to this page. Read! If they really, really love you and they want to make it work, spend half an hour, spend an hour. We’re talking about a relationship, a lifelong relationship. Invest some time. Spend a day. You’ll become an expert. You will understand 100% what that person feels. 100% from all of these articles written by all of these experts, including you, Debra. It’s all there.

DEBRA: Thank you.

BOB KOSBERG: It’s all there. It’s all been written. It’s all been explained. We have a brochure, I’ve been looking for it, that explains to people exactly what you’re talking about. And if you gave them this little brochure that we pulled together, it will explain it to them. So forget about explaining it to them. Send them to this site. Go to each site. There are just so many articles written. It’s all there. And if you want to make it work, you will understand and you will make it work. It’s as simple as that.

DEBRA: It is simple as that. And I want to say now, onto story number two. And I actually have three stories. But story number two is that after I had cleaned up my environment and recovered from being chemically-sensitive, I still wanted to live in a non-toxic way and I knew that in choosing a husband or a boyfriend even that I needed to have somebody who was willing to live non-toxic with me. And this was many, many years ago.

So it wasn’t as well-known as now. And I met a man, and he wanted to take me out on a date. And I said, “Well, the only way I ca go on a date with you is if you use these unscented products because I can’t get close to you if you’re going to smell like fragrance.”

BOB KOSBERG: Right. Or taste like fragrance. Go ahead.

DEBRA: And so I brought him—I got a little gift bag and I filled it with unscented deodorant and unscented shampoo and unscented soap. And I brought it to him and I said, “Here. Use these and I’ll go out with you.” And he did. And we ended up living together for two years. We broke up over other reasons but it wasn’t because he wasn’t willing to live exactly the way I asked him to.

I think that it’s totally possible.

And I’ll just say, the third thing was that—and we need to go to break. But the third thing was that after I broke up with this man, I met another man who not only was totally happy to live the way I live. He actually wanted to live that way and he didn’t know how. And we have been together in various ways for 27 years. And he’s remodeled my houses to be non-toxic. He’s helped me live this lifestyle, very much helped me live this lifestyle.

So if this is something you want, don’t think that there isn’t somebody out there who wants to do it with you because there are people out there who want to do it with you.

BOB KOSBERG: Absolutely.

DEBRA: We need to go to break but when we come back, we’ll talk more. You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd, and my guest today is Bob Kosberg. He’s the founder of Tears of Joy, and his website is TearsofJoy.singles (this organization no longer exists), and there are other links there on that website. So even if you don’t need companionship or a mate, go to TearsofJoy.singles and find out about chemicals and fragrances.

We’ll be right back.

= COMMERCIAL BREAK =

DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd, and my guest today is Bob Kosberg. He’s the founder of Tears of Joy, a fragrance-free dating and companionship service, which is at TearsofJoy.singles (this organization no longer exists). And lots of good things to look at there even if you aren’t looking for a relationship.

So Bob, tell us more. One of the things that I asked Bob was, “Well, how many members do you have?” And he said, “Zero.” But this is a very new organization. So what would you like to say to encourage people to sign up?

BOB KOSBERG: Well, one of the great features on this site is that it has the ability to match people with similar lifestyles. So the site’s ability is that if you are a university student, you work for a large organization or you’re a member of a group like coin collectors, you can go on the site, say that you want to form this group, and then we will make this group, so then people could search based on just that group.

So we want to make it easy for people and we want to make it convenient. And we want to put people with similar lifestyles together, if possible. So it makes it easier. That’s one of the great features of this site.

The site, besides uniting people for a cause, for a safer world, to help protect our food sources and waterways by eliminating the toxic chemicals from all these products, that’s very important. Another aspect of this site is health and exercise. It’s always been the forefront of my life’s passions. And a person’s health and weight, I believe, can’t be underestimated reasons why people have or don’t have confidence in themselves. And experience have shown that the confidence, it gives you to want to share a life with someone who is immeasurable.

So we talk about a lot on the site and as people join, we will show articles, we will write articles, we will encourage people to be as healthy as possible. It’s not complex and we’re not going to make it complex. We’re not going to tell them a million things. For me, it’s a protein shake every morning for 30 years, Debra. 30 years. Every morning, a protein shake. For lunch, oatmeal, fruits, hemp seeds, peanut butter, almost every single day. Dinner? Vegetables, tofu, beans most of the time.

Fairly simple, organic, and very healthy.

We want our people to be healthy. We want them to have confidence and that site is going to give them that.

DEBRA: Well, one of the things that I thought about just now when you were talking is that I really want—my vision is for the whole entire planet to be toxic-free. And as you look around the world, if you were to just be a bird and look down and everybody was living toxic-free had a nice bright light over their head, the little lights would be all scattered all over the place, not necessarily talking to each other.

And yet, when we start bringing people together in various ways, who have this interest, then there starts being more of a cohesive change. I would love there to be a city or a town or a village where I could just go and everybody would live this way.

BOB KOSBERG: There is.

DEBRA: Okay, where is that?

BOB KOSBERG: It’s Nova Scotia. Halifax, Nova Scotia. The entire town is fragrance-free.

DEBRA: Wow. What a wonderful thing. What I meant was be even more than fragrance-free. I would like there to be a town where everybody lives the way I live with no toxic chemicals as far as humanly possible. And I would like there to be agreement about that so that people don’t have to have be concerned about their neighbors using fragranced fabric softener or something like that. It just isn’t an issue because everybody knows and everybody is in agreement.

And on your site, people will know that this exists there, that if they meet somebody there, they’re not going to have to educate them from the beginning. They already understand or they want to understand and they’re willing to make changes in their lives if they haven’t already.

BOB KOSBERG: People still look up the City of Halifax, Nova Scotia. Read all about their policies. And it’s like, wow, why can’t every city be—it’s such a great start. It’s not talking about the flame retardants or anything. Right now, if you’re going to a building, you’re not going to smell anything toxic. You’re not going to smell anything. You’re just going to smell nature. And it’s an amazing place. I wish it was closer. I would probably move there.

DEBRA: Yes, me too. But I’m going to learn about it because I think that’s incredible and even if it is just starting with fragrance-free, it’s a start. One of the things that I’ve seen happen in my lifetime is all of these ordinances about not smoking cigarettes that people recognize that cigarettes cause cancer and that you should be able to go to a public restaurant or a public building and not be exposed to carcinogenic chemicals from cigarettes.

We need to have that awareness about many, many other things. I think that fragrance should be the next one. And if we could just take care of fragrance, then we could move on to the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing.

BOB KOSBERG: That’s right. So on the site is an article and it says, “Fragrance is the new second-hand smoke in the workplace.” So there’ s a big article about that and everybody can read about it. But let me tell you this funny, little, quick story. So early in the year, I was really into TED Talk and Oz. I’ve listened to 500 or a thousand of them. And I listened to one, Life and Biosphere 2 by Jane Poynter, P-O-Y-N-T-E-R.

So she lives in Biosphere 2 for two years and 20 minutes. And the first thing she says when she comes out and everybody greets her and in the talk, it’s at 7 minute, 50 second mark, for everybody. She says, “You stink. You people stink. You smell like perfume and hair products. You stink.”

It was so telling that she’s isolated, away from humans. She lived in Halifax, Nova Scotia in Biosphere 2, and she comes out and she says, “Oh, my God! You stink.” The first thing she says. That’s the first thing that comes to her mind because she’s assaulted by all of these fragrances. It’s so telling. It’s just an amazing thing.

DEBRA: Well, there is something called olfactory fatigue. You’re probably aware of that term but many of my listeners may not be. And olfactory fatigue is what happens when you keep breathing the same fragrance over and over that your fragrance receptors in your nose fatigue, and so you can’t smell it anymore.

And this is why people put on more and more perfume because they can’t smell it anymore.

And so, so many people like you were talking about, your mother, was it, that said that she wasn’t wearing anything scented, they can’t smell it. They don’t know that there are scents in their shampoo. And that’s one of the problems that we’re running into.

BOB KOSBERG: How many smokers think they stink, Debra?

DEBRA: Probably none.

BOB KOSBERG: That’s right. And how many—

DEBRA: You know, I want to tell you something that I think you’ll appreciate. It has to do with smoke. So I will admit—we’ve only got two minutes left but I’ll tell the story. I will admit that I love bacon. I have always loved bacon, my whole entire life. And then I stopped eating it. And then the other day, I actually found in my refrigerator a package of bacon. It had gone in the back of my refrigerator. And so I made it and I couldn’t eat it because it tasted like ashtray to me. I don’t even know what an ashtray tastes like but it tasted like how ashtray smells.

I’ve never smoked in my life but I used to eat a lot of smoked foods because I like the way they taste and not eating them on my first taste, it was like, I couldn’t even eat it. And that’s hugely different.

I see, probably the biggest, most popular thing on the Paleo diet is eat bacon. And these people are saying, “Oh, we’re being Paleo because we’re eating what cavemen used to it.”

Well, they sure didn’t use to eat smoked bacon.

BOB KOSBERG: What’s the vegan place that Kathy went to? We strongly believe in Forks over Knife way of eating. I don’t know if you’ve been on their site or—

DEBRA: I love them.

BOB KOSBERG: Basically, you’re [inaudible 00:49:10]. They’re the experts. He was a heart specialist and his son is a fireman and he’s written a book. Their story is compelling. The success stories are even more compelling and it’s like, somebody wants to be healthy—just see what people are doing. Just try for six months. Whether you’re 30 or 40, guess what? This has 40 years. If you’re 50 lbs. overweight, you don’t know how to eat. So give somebody else a chance. Follow their program for six months.

DEBRA: I’m going to stop right there because I don’t want to interrupt you when the music starts playing in about 10 seconds. So thank you so much, Bob, for being here. Everybody should go to his website, TearsofJoy.singles (this organization no longer exists) because there is so much there to see even if you’re not looking for a relationship.

You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. Be well.

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