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MJ PangmanMy guest today is MJ Pangman, co-author of Dancing with Water: The New Science of Water—a book that has revolutionized our relationship with water while unveiling its most mysterious properties. Ever since the year 2000, when she observed its powerful effects on her own body, Dancing with WaterMJ has focused her research on a special phase of water known as liquid crystalline water. This phase of water interacts more rapidly and efficiently with biological organisms. It can provide superior hydration, enhanced nutrient absorption, more effective detoxification, increased metabolic efficiency and improved cellular communication. With a Master’s degree in plant science and a love of the natural sciences, MJ will take to take you to a new level of your understanding about water and tell us how to turn water into a vital, life-supporting nutrient.

NOTE: The techniques that MJ will be talking about require that you start with the purest water you can obtain. I recommend the filters from Pure Effect Water Filters.





Going Beyond Filtered Water

Host: Debra Lynn Dadd
Guest: MJ Pangman

Date of Broadcast: August 05, 2014

DEBRA: Hi, I’m Debra Lynn Dadd and this is Toxic Free Talk Radio where we talk about how to thrive in a toxic world and live toxic-free.

It’s Tuesday, August 5th 2014. I’m here in Clearwater, Florida and I think we’re going to have a thunderstorm today. We have lots of thunderstorms here. It’s very interesting tropical weather. They’re wonderful! I love thunderstorms.
Anyway, we’re going to have a very interesting and very different show today. I talk about very different aspects of living toxic-free on this show and invite people on with many different kinds of viewpoints. I just want to give you a little orientation towards what we’re going to talk about today and that is the whole field of living toxic-free.

To me, it’s like a spectrum. At one end is everything that’s toxic that is just clearly harmful to life and even those things that are toxic have different degrees of toxicity like something that is very, very, very toxic, the worst toxic thing would be instant death on exposure.

And then you would have other things that make you sick when you’re exposed to them, make you see in various degrees right away. And then there are things that have to build up in your body and you have to be exposed to them day in and day out. And then when they build up, then you get sick from them.

And then you kind of get to the zero point where something is not harmful, but it’s not beneficial either, it’s just not harmful. And then when you cross that line, when you cross that line, you start getting into things that enhance your life, that actually make your health be better.

Technically speaking, something could be toxic-free if it gets to zero, that zero point because it’s no longer harming you. And pretty much, when we’re talking in the realm of consumer products, what we’re trying to aim for is just get to that point where you can have a consumer product that’s not going to harm you.

But what we’re talking about today, we’re going to take a giant leap over that line and go into an area of talking about something that can greatly enhance your life and your body condition, your health and your happiness, everything because it’s taking you closer to one’s natural state as if you were out in nature, as if you were a tree.

Humans out in nature, if we all lived out in the natural world and not in the industrial world, then we would have other elements affecting our bodies, other natural elements as opposed to the toxic things in our industrial world. What we’re going to talking about today is how to be restoring that natural life force and the medium that we’re going to be talking about restoring it through is water.

Now, before I have my guest start to speak, I also just want to add one thing here and that is that I talk a lot about water filters. And in fact, I have a water filter. If you have been listening to me for any length of time, you know there’s a lot of filter that I recommend that I knew because I think that not only does it remove the toxic chemicals the best, but it also kind of starts inching in the direction of making the water more like it is in nature.

The things that we’re going to be talking about today, in order to apply any of them, you need to start with water that’s not polluted. That’s the first step. And so everything that you’re doing to remove toxic chemicals from your water is all the right thing to do. And then there’s more and it’s fascinating how much more there is that we can do to get these life-enhancing properties into our water and into our bodies.

So I’d like to introduce to you my guest. She’s my MJ Pangman. She’s the author of Dancing with Water: The New Science of Water. It’s an amazing book. I’ve studied this subject. I’ve been studying this subject for a long time about water and about the natural state of water.

When I first – I have so much to say about this, but I want my guest to talk. Anyway, so when I read her material, it’s so simply described and so just everything that you need to do arranged in a way that’s extremely useful. I highly recommend that you read her book.

Now, you can go to her website, and you can get a free, little course. Just sign up. It’s right on the home page. You can get a course and every day, you will get emailed another lesson for about seven days I think it is where she goes over all the basics, all the things that we’re going to be talking about today. You can just go to her website and sign up. [Inaudible 00:06:29] because you’re going to want to read this over and over again to understand this.
Hi, MJ.

MJ PANGMAN: Good morning. How are you, Debra?

DEBRA: I’m good. How are you?

MJ PANGMAN: Excellent!

DEBRA: It’s kind of a long introduction, but I wanted to get all those things in. Tell us how you got interested in this subject?

MJ PANGMAN: Oh, you know, how does anyone fall into what they are meant to do here? Life is such a beautiful journey. It was probably about 15 or 17 years ago that as a writer in complementary medicine, I just run across this whole concept of water’s molecular structure and the fact that water could be a living, liquid crystal.

That was so fascinating to me that I just began to research and write. I got an opportunity to work with a Korean professor who had spent 40 years of his life researching this subject. I got the chance to help him translate some of his material into English because virtually unknown at that point in time in this country that there were things that we could do to water to restore its living quality and to restore its energetic qualities that then when you consume this kind of water, could make a powerful difference in the efficiency of your body at the cellular level.

Anyway, it was just so fascinating that I began to devote more and more of my time to it. And here we are today, the co-author of the book and I working on a second edition of Dancing with Water because it has just been so very wildly received within a niche, people who are ready for this kind of information.

Anyway, that’s sort of the background. It just drew me in and now, I’m swimming in it.

DEBRA: I love that. I do want to say, you have this really good – I’m looking at your course. I have studied your whole free course here now and it has a lot of information in it that I am in agreement with and were familiar to me from reading other things. But the way you’ve expressed it is so very, very clear.

I particularly wanted to bring up this whole idea of living water. It’s right in the beginning, you started talking about living water as opposed to dead water. So let’s just talk about the difference between those to start off.

MJ PANGMAN: Well, it’s an interesting thing right from the start because the term ‘living water’ is ancient and pervades many cultures. And so you have to ask yourself, “Why does this term ‘living water’ continue to show up?” Well, obviously, there is a difference between something that is living and life-supportive and something that may not be so life-supportive. I hate to think that water is ever really dead because it can always be restored.

So once again, it’s never really dead, but it certainly has like many people on the planet, lower life force level when it’s not treated appropriately. So water can be sick, let’s say that based on how we treated water. And water can have its life force taken from it.

DEBRA: I think that it’s a wonderful thing. I think it’s actually a sign of life, that something can be restored. For example, I think about the difference between say a tree that is made of wood and then you cut a limb off a tree and you turn it into a piece of lumber. You can’t restore the piece of lumber into being a living thing, but you can repair a tree. To me, that’s the difference between something that’s living and something that’s not living. And so obviously water is a living substance, but it can be damaged like our bodies can be damaged in terms of its vitality and it can also be restored.

We need to go to break, but we’ll come right back. You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd and my guest today is MJ Pangman. She’s the author of Dancing with Water and her website is We’ll be right back.


You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. My guest today is MJ Pangman. We’re talking about how to make sick water into living water. It’s so fascinating to me. I just love the way nature works and I love talking about this.
So if we want to create full spectrum living water, what’s the first thing that we should be looking at?

MJ PANGMAN: We need to look at the forces in nature just like you said. In nature, water is always moving. So that’s number one. In nature, water moves and when she moves, she never moves in a straight line. One of the worse things that we do for water is completely out of ignorance on our part. We think that the shortest distance between two points is a straight line, but water never moves in a straight line.

So when we force – and there’s a keyword too – force water under pressure through straight pipes, we actually strip the energy and the energetic quality from water. When water freely moves in the earth, she’s always meandering and she always takes longer to get there, but she’s full of live when she does. So movement is the key, turbulence is one of the key thing to look for when we want to revitalize water, movement.

DEBRA: I think about when I – like I live right here near the Gulf of Mexico. I don’t go in the gulf as much as I would like to and especially I didn’t want to go in after the big gulf oil spilt. But prior to that, my ex-husband used to go – especially in the evening, we go walk on the beach and we go swimming in the gulf. The difference between tap water like sitting in a bath tub versus swimming in a gulf –

Once I went on a trip to the Caribbean and I went up into the jungle and there was a pool of water. It was a pool like a cascading pool, a series of cascading pools. And so there was all these movement, these little waterfalls coming down into this pool over and over again where I was sitting. The vitality of that, you can feel that. You can feel that in the water. The water that comes out of our tap doesn’t feel anything like that.

MJ PANGMAN: No, it wouldn’t.

DEBRA: Yeah, it’s pretty amazing. It’s pretty amazing.

MJ PANGMAN: So one of the things that happen with movement is that whenever water moves, she’s always spiraling. She’ll come in contact with a rock or some kind of an obstruction. And always the action off of the rock is to spiral backward. You see all these eddies in rivers and what-not?

DEBRA: Yeah!

MJ PANGMAN: If you watch a river very long, you can just notice the spirals everywhere – the little ones, the large vortices. In fact, our hydrologists now recognize that as a river moves down its course, there are huge spirals that go down the center of it that interact with smaller spirals off of the side. I mean, it’s just a beautiful interaction. This is water in movement. The spiral action is one of the things that we find is capable of reviving water.

Whenever you stir water in a pitcher, you’re doing that same kind of thing. I mean, it’s a very beautiful meditative way to connect with the water as well. So there are some simple things that we show people in the book that absolutely makes perfect sense, just stirring the water and then when you begin to add some other dynamic to the water, it doesn’t have to be hard to bring back water’s life force.

DEBRA: Before that step one, I just want to, again, emphasize that what you need to do be doing is starting with water that doesn’t have toxic pollutants in it.

MJ PANGMAN: Correct.

DEBRA: You can’t revitalize, you can’t just take tap water and put it in a pitcher and stir it and start to revitalize it because the toxic chemicals, not only the straight line of it coming to the pipe, but also the toxic chemicals are working against this life force as well. So first, remove toxic chemicals and then start doing these things. Okay, so what comes next after movement?

MJ PANGMAN: In nature, the earth is a beautiful combination of electromagnetic field that are produced by the rocks, by pressures, by the fact that we have an electron-rich environment. The earth itself is covered with electrons that are delivered by lightning strikes everywhere around the planet all the time. So the earth itself has a negative charge and the ionosphere has a positive charge. So there are electromagnetic forces in the earth that are present all the time that water interacts with and water needs in order to organize.

It has been shown through many different methods that when water is placed within a very gentle electromagnetic field, it forces the molecules to align and to organize. So what we’re talking about creating for water is – we mentioned the term ‘liquid crystal’. The difference between quartz and the quartz crystal, not only is there a visible difference in the clarity of the material, but the reason for that clarity is that it’s the way those molecules are organized. Quartz is in what they call an amorphous conglomeration of silicon dioxide, but quartz crystal is an organized grouping of those molecules and it is quartz of entirely different property.

I like to remind people that in the forties, the world changed as we began to understand how to use the properties of crystals in our technology. Crystals are used in solid-state technology today. They began to be used in the 1940s when we incorporated crystal in crystal radios and allowed us to perfect the bending of signal further and wider with greater clarity because of this organization in the crystal matrix.

Water has the same molecular capacity to organize in the same way as a quartz crystal. It has the same molecular organization if it’s allowed and provided this gentle, electromagnetic forces that are present in the earth. And when that happens, water is assembled in a matrix that allows the transmission of signals to be clearer and cleaner.

And that’s water’s purpose. Water’s purpose in your body is to be this medium that carries signals and carry information. Not only does it carry nutrients, but information. So that’s what we’re after here, to provide water with the gentle electromagnetic frequencies that are natural. Now, you’ve got movement and electromagnetic field and you’re on your way.

It sounds like we’re ready for another break.

DEBRA: Excellent! We’re ready for another break. My guest today is MJ Pangman. She’s the author of Dancing with Water. Her website is You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd and we will be right back.


DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. My guest today is MJ Pangman. She’s the author of Dancing with Water. We’re talking about how to revitalized your already filtered water that doesn’t have toxic chemicals in it into being living, vibrant water that can help your body be more alive and healthy and be water the way it is in nature.

So MJ, what’s the next thing to do to revitalize your water?

MJ PANGMAN: Okay! Remember that water that doesn’t have any minerals in it does not conduct electricity. Most people don’t know that. They think water conducts electricity, but it’s the minerals in water that are the connective forces. So water that’s empty, water that’s had the minerals removed does not conduct electricity. Water was intended to carry minerals. Not that water is our primary source of minerals, food ought to be, but water doesn’t have minerals in it is not complete.

So the next step is to balance the minerals in water. Now you mentioned earlier that we’re starting here with clean water and there are lots of ways that we have devised in the last number of years to start with a clean slate and some of those ways are to distill the water or to put it through a reverse osmosis filter that leaves the water empty (which is not ideal at all) and there are other methods that filter the water to leave the minerals in the water, but no matter what you do, most water on the planet is still not minerally balanced.

And so the question is where in the world can we find a nice mineral balance? And the answer is in the ocean. That’s where we have all the minerals available to us in their perfect balance.

So a person, if they felt comfortable about working with that medium in our day, the ocean is a wonderful source of the balance of minerals. However, nature has provided us with those same minerals in the form of salt. There are some wonderful salt that can be harvested in many places around the world that are unprocessed, feel natural and they provide us the balance of minerals.

So the next step is to balance the minerals in the water or as the case may be, to completely re-mineralize the water based on whatever your starting place is. So the idea is to put the minerals back in the water, give the water something to work with, give it some energetic quotients if you will and not only does that then provides us with a balance of minerals that are more biologically available when we go through this process that we’re kind of outlining here, but it’s the way to recharge the water, to re-energize the water.

So we recommend that people take an unprocessed, natural salt and make a saturated salt solution and then that they use a small amount of that depending on the water that they’re starting with. If it’s completely empty, a half of teaspoon in a half a gallon of water. If it’s already got minerals in it, less than that.

But put the minerals back in the water. Give the water some energetic quotient to work with. And then as we move the water, as we expose it to organizing energy field, the water just sort of gathers energy from the universe if you will with all of those pieces put back together. It’s ready to go.

DEBRA: The first time I heard this concept was actually in 1987. I remember the year because that was the year I met my husband. It was actually at the very same time within the same hour I met my husband and I was already introduced to Viktor Schauberger, not in person, but via his book. His book had not yet been published in America.

Somebody had a copy, somebody in the audience. I was giving a speech and somebody in the audience had a copy. He had brought it particularly for me, somebody I didn’t know. He just walked up to me afterwards and he said, “You need to read this book.” He was right because I read it and the thing that impressed me the most was his explanation of the complete hydrologic cycle, which is not what you learn in science class.

The complete hydrologic cycle is that water evaporates. It goes up and becomes a cloud and it comes down in rain. And then it trickles into the earth. And as it does that, it gathers minerals and salts and all these things that we’ve just been talking about. And then it comes up in a spring. And so what you get in spring water is this cold, living, mineralized water, which is not what you get out of the tap.

And the point that he made very strongly in the book was that in order to have the water trickle down through the earth, you have to have vegetation. Without vegetation, the water just runs off. So when we do things like clear cut forest and things, we’re not allowing water to trickle down through the earth and then come back up to us.

How many of us ever get to drink spring water? I’ve drank spring water. It’s wonderful. But it used to be that that’s all people drink, that there were springs that were revered. They were considered to be sacred. They were protected. And the people, there would be like a village, there would be a spring and that’s the water that people drink. And that’s not like anything like what we’re drinking now.

MJ PANGMAN: It’s true. Sad, but it’s true.
DEBRA: Sad, but true, yes.
MJ PANGMAN: Right! Viktor Schauberger was a forester in Austria. He loved nature. He loved the forest. So for him to watch what happened with the whole deforestation, it would make him cry today to see what we’ve done with this planet even since he left in 1967 (I think he passed away). He was a lover of nature. He watched nature. And that’s where he got all of his ideas and his inspiration.

DEBRA: Okay! So then the next thing is sound and light.

MJ PANGMAN: You know, these are organizing forces that we don’t often recognize. One of the chapters in Dancing with Water is completely devoted to the organizational ability of sound. There’s wonderful videos if you start to look up how vibration affect the organization of matter.

There was a fellow in Europe. His name was Hans Jenny. He did some amazing research in the thirties, forties – I may have the dates wrong with that – where he puts sands on a plate and he vibrated the plate. He noticed that as he increased the frequency, the sand would organize into geometric forms.

DEBRA: I’ve seen those pictures.

MJ PANGMAN: They’re awesome.

DEBRA: They are.

MJ PANGMAN: The same thing happens with water when you expose water to – I’m going to group these into a larger category and say ‘organizing forces’, which include light and sound and life force itself, which is difficult to classify. Those forces, add the energetic quotients to water at the molecular level, these geometries create the liquid crystal that we’re talking about here as living water.

DEBRA: And we need to go to break. You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. My guest is MJ Pangman, author of Dancing with Water. We’ll be right back.


DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. My guest today is MJ Pangman. She’s the author of Dancing with Water and her website is

So the last element to put all these together to re-energize water is darkness. But instead of talking about that, I have two more really important questions and we only have about ten minutes left, so I’m going to ask you something else.
First, would you tell us what kind of benefits people could expect to experience when they drink this kind of water?

MJ PANGMAN: Of course, that depends on the individual. Everyone is in a different place. I’m going to back up and I’m going to just remind people that water is a living entity especially when we take care of it. We talk about water as our dance partner in Dancing with Water and we talk about the ‘dance with water’. So the metaphor is on many levels here with this title, Dancing with Water.

So everyone is in a different place, but water is conscious and will work with the consciousness of an individual. That’s kind of a step out there for some people, but I put that out there for people to ponder. Water has the capacity to work with you as an individual and that’s why people’s responses can be quite individual.

But as a whole, one of the first things that people notice when they begin to drink water that they have worked with, that they have worked with to bring back its life force, to re-energize, to restructure, to return water’s liquid crystalline state is more energy. The afternoon fatigue that a lot of people experience these days, that slump in the afternoon, I’ve had many people tell me that as soon as they started to drink this water, they were good to go, they didn’t fall asleep after lunch and that was a miraculous thing for them. So that’s probably the most often recognized difference.

Another thing that women pay more attention to is softer skin. For you, Debra, that is an indication because the skin is the largest detoxification organ of the body, anything that affects the condition of the skin is an indication that your body is now able to move the toxins through this largest detox organ through the skin. Any improvements in the condition of the skin are about how water is moving and doing what it needs to do as far as hydration and detox. So many women notice softer skin right away.

Athletes will tell you that they have the capacity to work harder and recover faster. The lactic acid build up that athletes often experience as a result of hard workouts at the level of the muscles seems to be able to move and clear faster when you are working with what I refer to now as more efficient water. The water is more efficient. It’s able to do its overall job in a more efficient manner.

So at the cellular level, we’re talking about water moving into the cells to hydrate and at an extracellular level, we’re talking about water drawing toxins out in a more efficient manner.
So some of the other things that people who have some symptoms often notice – I’m going to back up again and give some background here. Diabetes is known as the thirsty disease in Chinese medicine.

DEBRA: That’s right!

MJ PANGMAN: Many people who have diabetic symptoms will tell you that all of a sudden, they’re not as thirsty anymore and that they don’t require the level of medication that they did. Now, we cannot make any claims as far as that goes, but I hear that again and again. That blood sugar begins to balance. That’s an amazing thing, but that’s about water’s role in the body. And once again, diabetes is called the thirsty disease in traditional Chinese medicine.

I mean, these are some of the things. People who do live blood cell analysis and take before and after samples of the blood show dramatically how the red blood cells, they move apart. When a person is sick or dehydrated, the red blood cell stick together because they’re not able to move.

DEBRA: Uh-huh, I’ve seen those.

MJ PANGMAN: That’s called [inaudible 00:43:45], correct. But drinking one glass of this water, I remember the fellow in South Africa sending me these first pictures. He used live blood analysis to help diagnose and work with his patients and he said, “Oh, I could not believe this. Typically, if I would give a patient a glass of water, it would not make a difference in the blood. But this water, within 10 or 15 minutes moves those red blood vessels apart, gives them a charge, if you will and offers me the clarity to see what’s going on in their blood, so that I can tell them what difficulties they have that we can work with.” He was just flabbergasted.

DEBRA: I am sitting here laughing with delight because of course, if you put – I mean, you’re probably familiar with the book called – I’m trying to remember, Your Body’s Many Cries for Water. He just talks about water, just being dehydrated. But here, we’re going to a different level now and saying instead of putting this degraded water in your body, you’re now putting living water in your body. Of course, it’s going to perk up. It’s just going to perk up. Everything is going to start going right.
MJ PANGMAN: You bet it is, yeah. That’s right.

DEBRA: We think of things like aggressive factors like toxic chemicals, something that is being actively done to our bodies as being something that is harmful, but we don’t often think about what’s missing. And not only do we miss nutrition, but we also miss this aliveness. We so often don’t even think at that level. I’m just thrilled to hear that story because it really does show that our body is waiting to have these aliveness factors.

Now, I want you to just talk a little bit about some of the products that you have available on your website because you have a number of different things that people can use to apply all these things that you’re talking about. My favorite thing is the water cradle. I want to get a water cradle.
MJ PANGMAN: Ah, you picked the top of the line in our opinion. That’s an interesting choice you made and that speaks to you, Debra.

DEBRA: This one really speaks to me.

MJ PANGMAN: You’re connecting with nature, yeah. You know, one of the reasons Melanie and I wrote this book –we just were, “Will people listen to this? Will they care?” and we just said, “We’re going to show people that there are a hundred ways to bring these forces that we’ve just spoken about in this program together to bring back life forth. There are a hundred ways to allow water to move. There are a hundred ways, there are a hundred different ways to add salts back in mineral formulations in liquid forms these days. There are a hundred ways to add the life force organizing forces, to bring in chi, prana, sound, light.

There are just a hundred ways to do this, everything from some very simple natural ways like I spoke in the beginning, stirring the water, you can put magnets in your water, even placing quartz crystal in water.”
We talk about that in the book why that worked. People have done for centuries and it’s been pooh-poohed as an old wives’ tale, but there’s a science behind placing rocks and stones in water. They have an effect. We claim that in the book.

So there are so many different ways and we have tried to gather for the website a plethora of different ways from the very simple to a collar that you can place between two bottles and spin the water through a magnetic field, something as simple and inexpensive as that to some very expensive devices that automate the process.

But you’ve chosen something that we’ve developed and as an exclusive for Dancing with Water and we called it The Water Cradle. It’s based on Viktor Schauberger’s work where he showed that this shape (shapes are very important in the universe) that Viktor Schauberger worked with, the shape of the egg, it’s nature’s gestation vessel. It allows nature to continue to move quietly in the dark like what happens in the below ground part of nature’s water hydrological cycle that you mentioned earlier.

So then if you’ve got the appropriate salts in the water, you put water in a place where it can breathe within a ceramic container, you are providing in the base (which we don’t have time to go into) organizing forces (paramagnetic materials, life force attracting material in that base) surrounded with something that causes them to ring (we talk about that in the book), a way to gather life force, to protect the water.

Water is very open to receive information once you create this liquid crystal and now you want to protect it. You don’t want it exposed to the deleterious electromagnetic fields like microwaves and fluorescent lighting and some of those other things that are in our home, the fields that emanate off of computers, it’s the water cradle.

It structures the water, it protects the water and it enobles the water. And that’s Viktor Schauberger’s term as well.

DEBRA: Well, we only have ten seconds left, so I have to say thank you so much for coming today and telling us all of this. I want everybody to go to MJ’s website, and find out more about this. You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. Be well.

MJ PANGMAN: Thank you, Debra.


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