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Oram-MillerMy guest today is Oram Miller, a Certified Building Biology Environmental Consultant based in Los Angeles. Today we’re starting a series of shows in which Oram will be explaining the basics of EMFs. Today we’re starting with radio frequencies: what they are, how they are different from other types of EMFs, where they come from, how they affect your health, and how you can protect yourself from harm. Oram received his certification from the International Institute for Bau-biology and Ecology. He provides healthy home and office evaluations for clients throughout Southern California who have electro-magnetic sensitivities, as well as those who just want a healthier home. Oram also consults on the healthy design and construction of new and remodeled homes. Oram specializes in the effects of EMFs from cell phones, cordless telephones, Wi-Fi, tablets and smart meters, as well as health effects caused by basic EMFs from house wiring, including wiring errors and unwanted current on water pipes and other parts of the grounding system. Oram is available for on-site EMF consultations in Southern California and provides telephone consultations for clients nationwide. He writes extensively on the health hazards of EMFs on his website,





EMF Basics: Radio Frequencies

Host: Debra Lynn Dadd
Guest: Oram Miller

Date of Broadcast: November 12, 2015

DEBRA: Hi, I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. And this is Toxic Free Talk Radio where we talk about how to thrive in a toxic world and live toxic free. It’s Thursday, November 12th, 2015, and I’m here in Clearwater, Florida, where the sun is shining and we have a beautiful autumn day.

Today, we’re going to be starting a series of shows on the subject of EMFs. We’re going to be talking about the basics because EMFs is such an important subject and it affects our health in so many ways.

I find it confusing and difficult. I don’t want to say that at the beginning of the show because I don’t want to sound like this show is going to be confusing and difficult. But the point here is that it’s a confusing and difficult subject and this show is going to make it easier to understand.

We just really need to understand because EMFs, that term encompasses a number of different things. And when we are trying to do things to protect ourselves from EMFs or choose products that have EMF dangers, we need to understand these things.

So my guest is Oram Miller. He’s a certified building biologist environmental consultant based on Los Angeles. We’ve done a couple of other shows together. He just explains things so clearly that I just said, “Would you just tell us all about EMFs? Can you just break this up and make it simple?”

So we’re going to be starting today with radio frequencies, the part of EMFs that is radio frequencies. We’re going to talk about what they are, how they’re different from other types of EMFs, where they come from, how they affect our health and how you can protect yourself from harm.

Hi, Oram.


DEBRA: Good to have you back.

ORAM MILLER: Thank you for inviting me.

DEBRA: You’re welcome. So where should we start?

ORAM MILLER: Well, to follow up on what you just said in the intro, it is true. You asked me in September to speak on a show that we called Wireless 101. That was on September 30th. And as you and I both know (and the listeners of that program found out), we just ended up getting drawn into – not side conversations, but important conversations on other aspects of EMFs because it’s so vast.

But we [inaudible 00:03:19] 10 minutes before the end of the hour, I realized we hadn’t really gotten to the basics because we were following other threads, which are equally important and which people need to know about.

So you very wisely sent an email to me afterwards and said, “Why don’t we just set up a series of these talks or these interviews so that we can just go through the basics. And then go into each of the aspects as you said?”

This is the typical thing that I do for a client when I go to their home. The first hour of the five, six, seven, eight hours that I’ll be spending at the home is spent going over what EMFs are, which ones we recognize in the building biology profession, where they’re found in a typical home, what the health effects are and what the safety exposure guidelines or levels are that we recognize based on European research and research from Israel and Russia and India and Australia and then what we do about them.

And then with that knowledge, the client knows what the importance is of the EMF levels that I find and I allay fears that they may have from misunderstandings that they have about EMFs. So, part of what I do is to tell people what they don’t have to worry about. And then I go focus also on what our profession, my profession says is important.

And as I say to people, if I have done my job right, you and your spouse will have a serious conversation after I leave, over the next few days, looking up this research yourself and not taking my word for it. But just really thinking about how – especially with wireless, especially with that particular type of EMF.

They’re going to be making a choice that a small percentage of the population already is, out of necessity, because they’ve linked their symptoms that they have with the use of wireless devices. And that’s well-known outside of the United States.

And here’s a fact to get us started that a lot of people don’t know. Did you know that France just voted in January of this year to ban Wi-Fi in nurseries and daycare centers for children under three?

DEBRA: Oh, that’s great!

ORAM MILLER: Well, it’s great, but it’s like, “Huh? Why would they do that? Isn’t it safe? Everyone in America says it’s safe, meaning industry and government regulatory agencies and academia and the news organization.” They all say it’s safe. And any time anyone questions that they say, “Oh, no. There’s no research to show that there is any evidence of harm,” which sounds very similar to what we heard in the 1950s and ‘60s about cigarettes.

Because industry, most know well, that it’s harmful. They actually have stashed away a lot of money in a war chest for the inevitable class action lawsuits that will come when it is accepted and/or when they can’t deny it any further because public pressure has grown to such a point that government regulatory agencies will step in just like the EPA and other agencies did to clean up the mess and to pay for the health care that results from the use of this like the cigarettes in the 80s, the class action lawsuits that were settled.

And it’s just the cost of doing business because they can’t say that there’s harm for these technologies.

If you can imagine you’re a CEO of Verizon and you say that there is some potential harm from cell phones and you should protect yourselves and there’s some risk, if you know about it like warnings on a cigarette label or just exactly what one of the main researchers said to the cell phone companies in the late 90s, George Carlo, what would happen to him in this day and age? He’d be yanked and sued by his shareholders for loss of market share because nobody else is saying that and it’s “not true.”

DEBRA: I think that a warning label is actually an important thing, but I don’t think that companies voluntarily put warning labels.

ORAM MILLER: Of course not. That’s what I’m saying.

DEBRA: There has to be somebody imposing warning labels.

ORAM MILLER: Right. So let’s look at the President here. Outside of the United States, industrialized nations outside United States all have national healthcare delivery systems. They have private insurance. You can buy that on the side. But that’s not the major way that people’s health gets taken care of.

And I’m not talking about mainstream medicine versus alternative medicine. I’m just talking about the main way that health is delivered.

And so if the government is responsible for that and if they see a looming health crisis as was the case three times in the past in the last 60 years that is with asbestos, tobacco and the use of lead in gasoline and they know what happened there where industry [inaudible 00:08:03] on all three cases, well, it’s happening all over again.

And what’s concerning is that people are showing up in health clinics in all over the world, not just there, but here too, but the difference there is because of all sorts of reasons, campaign financing and the way the government is set up, and the way they hold elections, there are government officials who are not beholden to corporations like is the case here with campaign financing and law BS and such.

In other countries, you don’t have the head of the FCC (or their equivalent of our FCC) that the President being told, “You’re going to appoint this gentleman” and it turns out he comes from Comcast and he was the former head of the Cell Phone Trade Association. So he has no agenda, Tom

Wheeler, I’m talking about, to protect health. His main objective is to make sure that industry’s needs are taken care of. I’m not going with other people had said.

And so the problem is it’s like a big façade. You can’t crack that. No one can crack it. If you say that there is any evidence of any harm, they’re immediately shot down by those who say, “No, that’s false. There is no evidence.”

Now, it turns out that Joe Moskowitz in Berkeley pointed out that for one week, there was a short piece on the CDC website, Centers for Disease Control, echoing what is already widely said in countries outside United States, particularly in Europe and the other countries I mentioned, which was that there is some question that cell phones are potentially harmful to certain people.

Well, that was yanked. That was actually removed from the website. And so you can’t tell me that our government regulatory agencies are independent. They are not.

So I don’t think anybody who listens to this network, to your show, is surprised by that. So let’s just move on.

So what it boils down to is you have to look outside United States and see what they’re doing in other countries.

So my profession, the building biology profession, comes from Germany. It was brought here by an architect who has passed away a few years ago.

But he brought this knowledge to America 27 or so years ago and founded the International Institute for Bau-Biology and Ecology. Bau is the German word for building, so we are building biologists. Our focus is the health of people within a built environment, their homes and their offices.

DEBRA: And we need to go to break. We need to go to break. But when we come back, let’s get started with talking about radio frequencies.


DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd, and my guest today is Oram Miller. He’s a certified building biology and environmental consultant. We’re talking about a portion of EMFs known as radio frequencies, and his website is We’ll be right back.


DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd, and my guest today is Oram Miller. He’s a certified building biology environmental consultant. I keep wanting to just say bau biology instead of building biology because I originally learned it as bau biology.

ORAM MILLER: But most people don’t know what that means.

DEBRA: I know but I’m tripping over these words.

We’re talking about radio frequencies today so that we can learn more about EMF basics.

So what is a radio frequency?

ORAM MILLER: Well, radio frequencies are – they’re invisible. They are transmitted from a wireless transmitter, and that could be, obviously, the radio station and television station transmitters, buildings in mountains for the broadcast we have. Although a lot of it is now through cable for television.

And then we also have the wireless. A lot of people stream their TV and radio listening and viewing through their smart phone and their iPad, which comes from Wi-Fi, which would be transmitted from your router in your home and various wireless access points in your home. Or from the cell tower itself, which is what’s called a 3G or 4G technology, which is third generation or fourth generation actually.

Basically, Wi-Fi and radio frequencies are one of four types of EMFs, the other three being electric fields and magnetic fields coming out of your house wiring and from outside power lines and then dirty electricity which a lot of people know about in this field.

So those are the four types of EMFs, electric fields and magnetic fields from your house wiring, radio frequencies including Wi-Fi, cell phones, and the like, and then dirty electricity.

So what we decided to do was to spend a few interviews, Debra, at your suggestion, focusing on one type of EMF at a time. So now we’re focusing on wireless.

So the radio frequency, radio waves, are the means by which data is transmitted under video or audio or both over the air from a transmitter. And we have these transmitters in our homes and right in front of us, our cell phones.

So you have to understand that there really isn’t any harm from having a receiver only, which is what a radio is. So you can have an AM or FM battery-powered radio right next to your ear all day long, and there’s a slight magnetic field from that but if you hold it in front of you, it can only extends out about an inch or so from that and it’s still [inaudible 00:16:29].

But now, in the last 15, 20 years, we have two-way communication devices, which are transmitters and receivers. So your cell phone, which is now our smart phone because we have now shifted the e-mailing and web browsing from computers to the device in our hand because it’s more convenient, and we can do it anywhere anytime.

And the problem is if you’re doing it outside the home, you have to use the wireless connection because you can’t connect wireless in a [inaudible 00:17:02]. But in the home, you can. And the problem is people are used to using their handheld devices, so they do that inside the home as well even though they have a computer over in the corner and they have a telephone sitting right there (although it’s cordless these days, but we it to be corded again) and they just continue to use their smart phone for all their computing.

And the problem is, there is – not a continuous, but a rather constant, intermittent transmission of a radio frequency that affects the health of cell for adults and children. And the problem is when we liken it or compare it to cigarettes, which is what it is, the problem is you can’t see or smell the radio frequencies, so you’re unaware of it unless you’re one of those unlucky few, and those numbers are increasing, who experience some symptoms, and you don’t know that they’re related to these devices in your hand.

So that’s what radio frequencies are.

DEBRA: I know that people do that, what you say, that they just use their cell phone for all their computing and their e-mail and everything. And I know people like that. They have a business that they’re working around, they’re not in the office, and so their whole business happens on their cell phone.

I’m so happy to not be one of those. And I can’t even imagine doing that because they’re so small that it’s hard to see all those things on the screen, and I just would never do that. I have to have a big screen so that I can have big letters.

ORAM MILLER: Well, yes, but each cell phone has five transmitters in it that operates at five different frequencies. And so the problem comes – and they have different power density.

So some of them, like Bluetooth, are lower power density, lower strength because they only have to send and receive signals from a transmitter basically in your – Bluetooth is very close. For instance, the device that you put in your ear connects to the cell phone which is on a table in the same room, and then cell phone on the counter is what connects to the cell tower which could be two to three miles away, or one to two miles away.

Then there’s also a Wi-Fi transmitter inside of your cell phone which connects to the Wi-Fi router in your house, which could be in another room.

There are two usually antennas that connect to the cell tower to either 3G or 4G route – I’m sorry, for voice. That’s the direct connection for voice.

But there’s also something called 3G, 4G data. So that’s happening, I think, at the same frequency. It might be a different frequency.

And these are all up in the hundreds of megahertz range, which means – megahertz means millions of cycles per second. So we’re looking at 800 or 900 million cycles per second.

So the problem is when the transmission occurs from the device in your hand or at the side of your head, or in your lap, if you’re texting or looking at the screen, that goes into our bodies, and it affects the cells.

I think we have the whole talk or interview that we’ve set aside to go over the research on what that does for our health. So we’re going to talk about that, I think, the next time actually.

So here we’re just giving an introduction.

So I mentioned that there are four types of EMFs, and this is one of them, and I mentioned that radio frequencies come from a transmitter. And here’s an interesting thing. When the phone is sitting on your table, or in your pocket, and a text message comes or an update from the company, from the cell tower for the plan that you’re with, whatever the carrier is, there is a signal sent by the cell tower that says, “I have a message for you.”

Now, the phone has to establish what they call an electronic handshake. And the phone sends back a transmission that says, “I’m ready.” That’s a transmission.

Then the receiving occurs, the message is downloaded, and there’s no harm from that. But then the phone is programmed to send back a signal saying, “I got it” which means the tower now knows that the message has been successful delivered and removes it from its queue to send because if your phone is not –

DEBRA: I have to interrupt you just because the commercial is going to come on in a second. You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd, and my guest today is Oram Miller. And we’ll be right back after this to hear more about radio frequencies.


DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd, and my guest today is Oram Miller. We’re talking about radio frequencies as part of the whole package of EMFs.

So Oram, could you say what you said before the break again?

ORAM MILLER: I just wanted to point out that there are hidden transmissions – I just realized that opens up a whole possibility of the snooping or surveillance that these devices can do, but it’s a whole another topic.

DEBRA: I think what you were trying to say is –


DEBRA: That there are obvious transmissions like when you’re speaking, that’s a transmission. But there are other transmissions –

ORAM MILLER: Well, not necessarily. It doesn’t break even that way. Basically, the cell phones do not transmit continuously. Now, routers do. The Wi-Fi signal from your router is continuous. The radio frequency transmission from your cordless phone base unit is continuous, and when you have a cordless phone next to your head, that’s a continuous transmission. Cell phones are intermittent. Just bear that in mind.

If you have a radio frequency detector, and you can buy them, then you’ll see, and you’ll be puzzled by the fact that you’re talking but there’s no signal detected on your radio frequency detector.

Well, there’s something called caching, and people who know computers know about this. That there’s caching of data and that is transmitted in a big burst every second or two, or every few seconds. So that’s how it’s transmitted back and forth.

And also it’s transmitted at a very low level for a certain time. So some of the seconds where you don’t really see anything on your meter, it’s still connecting at a very, very low level because these devices have very sophisticated technology.

For instance, I’ll have someone say to me – I live in my home here, especially in an apartment or condo, and I’ve got eight Wi-Fi routers, that I could connect to if I had the password, because that shows up on their smart phone or their tablet.

And they’ll say things like – I’m getting blasted, right? And I say, well, actually no. Not from the majority of them. If you look at the signal strength to the right, that little icon there only one bar is showing instead of four, maybe two of them are four, one in their house obviously, and maybe the most immediate neighbor.

But even then if we shut off the router in their home, and we measure, and turn their phone off, the signal strength can be relatively low, below 10 microwatts from your square, which we consider to be a safe level.

Arguably, people who are electrically hypersensitive, even that’s too high for them, and I understand that. I work with people who can’t go into a coffee shop, that can’t go into a library. They can’t go anywhere where there’s Wi-Fi because they develop headaches.

We’ll get into that.

So the signal strength from a distant router is below relative to the meters that we have. So you’re relatively safe in most homes, provided you don’t have that blasting continuously that signal from the device in your own home.

DEBRA: I just want to make sure I understood what you said. So if somebody has a router, a Wi-Fi router in their home, then that’s relatively safe?

ORAM MILLER: No. I’m saying if you – no. You got to turn that off. And you can – I haven’t even gotten into this yet. But we can and do go to great lengths to help people find ways to recreate it because they had this in the past hardwired Ethernet cable networks in their home.

DEBRA: That’s what I have right now. I don’t have a Wi-Fi router.

ORAM MILLER: Right. So you can have your router on, and yet turn off – disable the Wi-Fi but have the router still on as a hardwired network because it does both. It does both –

DEBRA: So I have a router but I use cables. I don’t have it set for Wi-Fi.

ORAM MILLER: That’s right. So every router automatically when you plug it in and boot it up, and you get the data signal from the internet service provider, it is a hardwired hub with four jacks on the back.

Now, the Wi-Fi is a separate network that you can either enable or disable. And most of the routers that you get out of the box has a default mode where the Wi-Fi comes on, or when the guy comes from the geek squad and sets it up for you. They’ll always turn it on.

So you have to say, “No, I don’t want that. Please disable it.”

And even then, unfortunately, our radio frequency detectors still detect a signal in some models. And that’s because they’re still sending out a signal even though the network is not on and the light for the Wi-Fi is off in the front panel of the router, and you can’t see it as a network that’s available when you’re trying to connect to it from a smart phone or a tablet or a laptop.

So in that case, we have to go deeper and it’s called bridge mode. We have to disable the bridge mode in the LAN, the local area network settings.

And I’m getting technical here now.

And then there’s another thing with Xfinity, which is from Comcast, where they’re now establishing – they’re making your router in your home as a public Wi-Fi hotspot for their network so that it passes by in cars and walking outside your home can connect as they walk down the sidewalk, connecting from one house’s Xfinity public network hotspot to another.

DEBRA: And they’re just doing that? They’re making your router a public router without you knowing it?

ORAM MILLER: No, actually they do tell you. And they say, “Isn’t this great?” And they’re letting you know because you already have it on, so what’s the problem?

Now, it is a separate transmitter, a separate antenna, and it’s a higher strength, by the way, stronger than the signal that’s in your house. And when we go in, those of us who know how to do this with our client, or client do it for themselves, and they go in and they disable the personal – they call it the personal network, then you can’t access that anymore because it’s not on, but our radio frequency detectors still detect a very strong signal, and I’ve encountered this now and called Comcast on behalf of my clients. And they say, “Oh, yes. That’s in a separate department.”

They went through all these steps. The call was very nice. They said, “Yes, if your client doesn’t want it, we can turn it off.”

So he did. And it turns out, it’s still transmitting. We’ve run into this on a colleague who spent several hours with the tech, finally getting to the point where my colleague, who’s electrically sensitive himself, had a meter, and said, “Now, it’s off.”

But prior to that it wasn’t.

And so even though the guy said it was based on what he saw in his computer screen in the office in another state.

So it gets tricky now with these public hotspots. But you have to understand, Debra, it’s all based on the assumption that these technologies are safe.

DEBRA: Yes. There is an assumption that the technologies are safe. And we’re not going to talk a lot about that today but we are going to be talking about that in the future so that everybody can have that information.

ORAM MILLER: Let me just finish what we started at the beginning of the segment. So when your cell phone gets a text, it does send a second signal saying, “I got it” so that the cell tower releases that and knows that you got it, and doesn’t have to re-send it, which would be the case if your cell phone was off.

Now, my point with that was in the act of receiving a signal or a transmission, your cell phone send that two signals in their process.

So you’re exposed all the time.

Now, when I’m sitting here talking to my clients and going over the basics before we get up and go around the house and take measurements, and I work with people long distance by the way. They get meters of their own –

DEBRA: I have to interrupt you again because the commercial is going to come on just in a second.

You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. My guest today is Oram Miller. He’s a certified building biology environmental consultant in Los Angeles, and we’ll be right back. We’ll talk more.


DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd, and my guest today is Oram Miller. He’s a certified building biology environmental consultant in Los Angeles. And his website which has a ton of information on it, lots of articles and resources all about this subject is

Oram, continue with what you were saying. I’m sorry I keep interrupting you but we’re in the last segment now, so we only just have about 10 minutes left.

ORAM MILLER: So since this is an introduction to the topic, I would like to expand a little bit on what you just did that this information, the information that you’re hearing can be – you can learn a lot more about it by going to my website, and then the others that I linked to, and that are out there.

But my website is It’s plural. It’s all one word.

On that website, I would particularly recommend that your listeners go to Comments from Clients, and also Articles on EMFs. And on that page, you’ll see not only articles on each of the four types of EMFs, and the one we’re talking about is an article on radio frequency EMF. But I just wrote and added an introduction to EMFs which explains them in more typical detail.

It’s written for the lay person.

And then there’s also another page which is EMF Lecture Slides. And that has a PowerPoint, in PDF form that you can download. I’m looking at it right now as I’m talking to you just to follow the points here. And this is from a talk that I gave at the Cancer Control Society just two months ago.

So you can see a lot of this information there. The other thing is the whole issue of what is a safe level, that’s’ covered there, and where these come from.

So let’s review where EMFs come from. They come from the transmitters that we know about like our cell phones, the tablets that we now have, from routers and from cordless telephone base units and the handset that you walk around with.

And people need to understand that when they hang up the phone, hang up the call with cordless handsets, and put it in the base unit, that base unit today in the last few years, those models that had been sold in the last few years, continue to emit radio frequencies 24/7. It’s like an ashtray with four or five brand of cigarettes filling the kitchen with smoke, wherever that router is located.

Do not have the cordless phone facing it. The one that has the telephone line that goes from the back of a base unit to the telephone jack in the wall, or the telephone jack on your router. Do not have that base unit in your bedroom because when you hang up the phone, the base unit continues to emit frequencies 24/7, and it doesn’t stop.

DEBRA: I used to have one of those sitting right next to my desk where I work all day. It was three feet away. And I had an inspection where some building biologist came in and with all their instruments and took the EMF readings. And that was the worst spot in the entire house. And I immediately, immediately took it out, and got a corded phone.

ORAM MILLER: So then you replaced it with a corded one.

In Europe they the ECO DECT model from Siemens that is at a particular frequency that they use over there, and that does shut off the transmitter to save energy. That’s why they call it the ECO smart.

But we don’t have that in this country because it uses a frequency – that model uses a frequency that the military uses to interfere – so it’s allowed in the country. You can’t buy it. You can import it, and it would work, but they don’t sell it in America.

So people need to understand that that’s happening. It’s an invisible, continuous emission. Now, it does not happen, by the way, from your handset that’s the extension handset in its own charging cradle just to charge the battery and that extension has it.

When you press the off button then that goes dead.

But it’s still not a good idea to use it because when you take a call, you’re exposed to that frequency, very high frequency, 200, 300, 400,000 microwatts which is less than the level that the FCC says is safe, which is 10-million or 1-milliwatt per square centimeter, which is 10-million microwatts per square meter. And I’m going to talk about that in the next segment, next interview.

So those are some hidden sources and also when you put a tablet in your baby’s hands or an infant – not an infant but toddlers, child’s lap to watch a movie while you’re making dinner, you have to put it in airplane mode because the typical cell phone, the typical tablet puts out radio frequencies – and laptop, all three of them, every 8 to 12 seconds roughly, looking for a router, connecting to a router, even if you don’t have one.

So if you have a laptop and you plug and use the cable, and you plug that, using a cable into the router, people make the mistaken assumption that that shuts off the Wi-Fi in the tablet, and it does not. You have to do that manually. And I can over that in the next segment.

So those are the typical radio transmitters that we know about but there are more. Your thermostat, if it’s a new model from Ecobee, E-C-O-B-E-E or Nest, wonderful technology for the Nest thermostat but it sends out a radio frequency, a Wi-Fi signal every five seconds in one model, and every 15 seconds in another.

There’s more. These devices, Roku and Apple TV send out Wi-Fi continuously from the unit that’s on top of your TV or underneath it. It used to be the case with the models 1 and 2 that when you plug it an Ethernet cable, which you can, it shuts off the Wi-Fi but not with Apple 3 or the Roku 3.

You can disable Airplay on Apple 3 on screen, but you can’t do that with a Roku. You have to use a play station.

And then, let’s see. What else? There’s the [inaudible 00:45:18]. I went to a home and the lady didn’t – she was sensitive to all of this and didn’t want the frequencies, and we were converting her back to hardwired, which everyone is going to go back to in the next 10 years or so.

And I kept picking up a signal at the three home entertainment centers she had. It’s a big house, had some money, but I kept unplugging things one by one, which is what you have to do. And then finally, the signal went away on my meter. And I said this cord goes to this device, and I picked up and it said red eye. And I said, “What’s that?”

She said, “Well, that enables my boyfriend and I to sit on our couch while we’re watching TV and use our iPad to change the channels instead of the remote.”

And I said, “Okay, but it’s continuously sending out a signal.”

So she just continues to use it because she didn’t want to be exposed to these frequencies.

DEBRA: Why would somebody want to do that? Why not just the remote?

ORAM MILLER: Well, because – I don’t know. Everyone’s so wedded to their tablets and their smart phones. I don’t know. They want to do everything – they’re trying to make it seamless so that you can do everything from your smart phone.

The Consumer Electronics Show is held in Nevada in Las Vegas every January. And where I live here in Los Angeles, the LA Times, and other newspapers cover this every day of the four-day conference. There’s a big splashy article about what’s the latest thing.

Last year, they started using a phrase that is being copied and picked up in the media. We have now entered what they call the internet era, the age of the internet of everything, the internet everything.

DEBRA: I saw that.

ORAM MILLER: So we’re trying to seamlessly incorporate everything you do with a smart home concept. There are ads on TV for a particular internet service provider with a service that links to your security system, and thermostat, and lighting, and everything, so that you can monitor this in your cameras, your surveillance cameras within your home.

You can see what your dog is doing, and what your son is doing in the house from your office. And when you’re driving home you can turn the thermostat up before you get there, things like that.

But that can only happen if everything is controlled wirelessly throughout the house because it’s all considered to be safe.

And for the majority of the population, they don’t feel this. Two thirds of the population does have DNA damage because 100% of people do. But they can repair the damage to the cell, to the mitochondria, and all these other very precious physiological processes biologically occurring at low levels in our cells 24/7.

But that’s affected by these technologies, but two thirds of the population can repair the damage and not feel a symptom. That doesn’t mean that they’re healthy but FYI, not everyone has symptoms. It’s a little –

DEBRA: Well, that’s a whole other segment in itself, it’s what is healthy. And we won’t start talking about that today. But I just want to say most of the people that I see around me, not in my immediate circle because we take pretty good care of ourselves, but out in the world, a lot of people are not feeling well, and a lot of people are taking over-the-counter drugs, they’re taking natural remedies, all of these things to make it appear as if they’re healthy, but they actually aren’t.

ORAM MILLER: [inaudible 00:48:40] we’re having symptoms.

DEBRA: Well, we have less than a minute left. So I just want us to wrap up here. Any final things you’d like to say quickly?

ORAM MILLER: There’s so much to say.

DEBRA: I know.

ORAM MILLER: We won’t say more, but people can go to my website, Go to Articles on EMFs and then click on the article on radiofrequency EMFs, and you’ll see a lot of this.

Also look at the EMF Lecture Slides. And also on the homepage, at the top, there are references or links there too, very important initiatives – there’s a whole group of scientists, 200 of them, that are petitioning – led by Martin Bank, from Columbia who did the DNA research and wrote Overpowered, a popular book, that whole appeal was sent to [inaudible 00:49:31], Secretary General of the UN and the head of the World Health Organization. And every member country of the UN appealing to them and saying, “This is a health crisis.”

There’s an epic proportion that you need to know about and act on just like we did with tobacco, asbestos and lead in gasoline. It’s the fourth health crisis in 60 years because it’s affecting human health and future generations.

DEBRA: And I have to say thank you because the music is going to come on in about two seconds. Thank you so much and we’ll talk to you again.

That was Oram Miller. His website is And you’ve been listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. Be well.


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