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Oram-MillerMy guest today is Oram Miller, a Certified Building Biology Environmental Consultant based in Los Angeles. He will be giving us a basic primer on the different types of wireless and their health effects, so we can navigate intelligently through this wireless world and make good decisions. The other day I had a computer technician at my house and he asked me why I didn’t have wireless. He said he researched it and it’s perfectly safe. At that moment I realized that I didn’t know enough about wireless to 1) make an informed decision and 2) educate him on the dangers of wireless. So I contacted Oram and asked him to give us the basics. Oram received his certification from the International Institute for Bau-biology and Ecology. He provides healthy home and office evaluations for clients throughout Southern California who have electro-magnetic sensitivities, as well as those who just want a healthier home. Oram also consults on the healthy design and construction of new and remodeled homes. Oram specializes in the effects of EMFs from cell phones, cordless telephones, Wi-Fi, tablets and smart meters, as well as health effects caused by basic EMFs from house wiring, including wiring errors and unwanted current on water pipes and other parts of the grounding system. Oram is available for on-site EMF consultations in Southern California and provides telephone consultations for clients nationwide. He writes extensively on the health hazards of EMFs on his website,





Wireless 101

Host: Debra Lynn Dadd
Guest: Oram Miller

Date of Broadcast: September 30, 2015

DEBRA: Hi, I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. This is Toxic Free Talk Radio where we talk about how to thrive in a toxic world and live toxic free. It’s Wednesday, September 30th – wow, September is fun already, September 30th, 2015 and I’m here in Clearwater, Florida where the sun is shining.

It’s sunny Florida although it hasn’t been so most of the summer, but now it’s getting into our fall and winter time. So if you’d wanting to come to Florida, now is the time. This is why people live in Florida, it’s for October, November, December, January, February, March. It’s just beautiful and not snowing and 70 degrees.

So anyway, today what we’re going to do is a show about wireless, just a basic wireless 101 to really understand what wireless is and how it can affect your health and how widespread it is and different kinds of wireless. The reason I was prompted to do this show and invite my guest on today is because a few weeks ago, I got a new computer and I had to because my computer totally died after eight years. And when he came to work to help set things up, he said, “Why aren’t you using the wireless keyboard and the wireless mouse?” And I said because I don’t do wireless. He says, “You don’t do wireless.” He couldn’t figure this out. Everybody does wireless.

And I said, “No because I don’t want to have the health effects of wireless.” He says, “Oh, it’s perfectly safe. I have worked with it for a long time and I have done a lot of research.” And he says, “There are different types of wireless and this one is totally fine.” And I just realized that I didn’t know. I know a lot about toxic chemicals because I’ve been studying that for 30 years and I have reviewed so many products, et cetera, but wireless is an important consumer health issue and I don’t know as much about it as I should.

So I thought we could all learn together. When you see the word “wireless,” what does that mean? When you see the word “Wi-Fi,” what does that mean? How are these things affecting our bodies? So I brought in somebody who knows the answers to these questions to talk to us.

My guest today is Oram Miller. He’s a certified building biology environmental consultant based in Los Angeles and he specializes in all these electromagnetic things. Hi, Oram.


DEBRA: How are you today? How’s the weather at LA.

ORAM MILLER: Just as sunny and warm as it is in Florida.

DEBRA: Yeah. Exactly it would be. Okay, so let’s just start at the beginning. I have a list of words here that I’d like you to define. You know more about this subject than I do and I realized that I don’t even know enough to organize my thoughts about it. So if you think that I’m asking you questions and if you should tell me things in a different order, feel free to just say what makes sense to you even if it doesn’t answer my question.

ORAM MILLER: All right, go ahead.

DEBRA: Okay, so the first question is define the word wireless. When we see “wireless,” what does that mean?

ORAM MILLER: Basically it means communicating between devices without cords or without wires.

DEBRA: And so could that mean that it would be communicating in many different ways?

ORAM MILLER: The only way that that’s done now was radio transmission although your remote control device for your TV and entertainment center can be programmed to either use infrared light, but you can’t see if it’s in the infrared spectrum. It’s not radio frequency based and it’s safe. And you know that because you put your hand over the top of it as you hold the remote control in your hands face up and you put your hand at the end of it and then you try and change the channel or change the volume and nothing happens. Take your hand away and then the beam of light that goes at the top of that remote is picked up by a little eye on the TV and then the channel changes.

Now if it’s radio frequency, which bothers some of the clients that I work with, then when you change the channel and put your hand over the end of it, the channel does change because the wireless frequencies are going right through your hand.

DEBRA: Okay. Just to reiterate what you just said, when you are talking about remote controls for television or I assume a stereo, anything with a remote control, the ceiling fans sometimes have remote controls. So those could be either infrared or radio frequency.

ORAM MILLER: For TV and the entertainment center, yes, but not for the fan. That would be radio. And your garage door opener is another wireless device.

DEBRA: And that would be radio.

ORAM MILLER: Yeah, it would be radio. It’s not infrared. You pull your visor down as you’re approaching your garage and you press the button and it sends out a radio signal in 360 degrees, but it goes out far enough right through the windshield and through the garage door and it is picked up by the radio receiver that’s mounted on the garage door opener, which opens the garage door.

DEBRA: Okay, so let me ask you a new question. What does wi-fi mean?

ORAM MILLER: I think it means wireless fidelity as opposed to Hi-Fi. I think somebody got clever and thought to put W instead of the H. Remember the old…

DEBRA: Yeah, I used to have Hi-Fi.

ORAM MILLER: Yeah. High fidelity back in the ’50s and ’60s distinguish it from the old mono with tubes and such that didn’t sound very good, but when stereo came along, they called it high fidelity or Hi-Fi. I remember that in the ’60s when I was a kid.

DEBRA: I do too. Me too.

ORAM MILLER: Okay, so 30 years later, 40 to 50 years later, they developed wireless communication between computers and printers and the router and so they called it the Wi-Fi. By the way, for those of your listeners who already know about this, there is a technology that uses infrared. I don’t want to forget this. It’s called Li-Fi and it means light fidelity or light communication.

There is a company BeamCaster from Russia that sells a unit that is used in offices in the US and Europe where they have open platinum or they have an open ceiling where they have dividers for the cubicles, but it’s all an open space overhead and they have a unit in the middle of the ceiling, in the middle of the large room with receivers and transmitters that are light-based, using infrared beams in the corners of the room and so the internet signal is transmitted on this light signal, which has no radio waves at all. It’s just purely infrared light and it has direct connections there.

That’s safe from our standpoint and it’s four times faster than Wi-Fi and you can’t hack it. We’re then moving in that direction. And this gentleman who’s developing this is actually trying to integrate this into the light beam that comes from overhead LED light. You can bond or marry the infrared signals on to the light signals as long as you have a receiver that picks it up down underneath the light beam on the desk.

So you can move around in a room if you have overhead LED lights and the idea is to integrate this throughout the house as you move from one room to another because the big problem is portability.

And the problem that I deal with, with this issue when I go to people’s homes is they will call me for one particular EMF. They’ll say, “I have a trimeter,” which is the trifield meter, which measures magnetic fields. It’s not so sensitive in the electric and radio frequency spectrum, so we don’t really recommend that meter for those purposes because the safe exposure levels that we feel are important are way lower than what the trifield meter can measure in those two settings. But for magnetic field, it does measure the magnetic field.

So people will say, “The needle is going up. I have high magnetic fields in my home. Can you come and evaluate it?” So I do, but when I’m there, I say or I tell them on the phone ahead of time that there are three other types of EMFs besides magnetic field. There are electric fields from house wires, which are different than magnetic fields and need a different meter that is more sensitive than the trifield to measure and they affect your sleep. That’s where they are a problem primarily. I think we talked about that on the first time you had me on your show.

DEBRA: Right, but you should say it again because I am sure not everybody has heard this.

ORAM MILLER: Yes and it’s very important. It’s important for people to know that there are four types of EMFs.

The electric fields are the unknown EMF and they affect the quality and depth of your sleep. And nobody really knows about them in our profession. And in fact, if you use an earthing mats, which are very popular. There’s a difference opinion in my profession about that. But if you get the electric field level down and you have to do with a test that we can do for people and then they can shut off the breakers that need to be shut off to reduce the electric fields in their bedroom because the voltage comes out of the walls, six feet. The electric field from the voltage comes out six feet even if the current is not present, even if the lights are off.

DEBRA: We need to go to break. We need to go to break.


DEBRA: So let’s get to break and come back and I want to hear more about this because you’ve been saying a lot of things, four types of fields. I want to make sure we cover all four and I want to hear the difference of opinion about the earthing mat. I’m sure people’s ears are perking up.

All right, we’re going to go to break. This is Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. My guest today is Oram Miller, certified building biology environmental consultant. And this website is We’ll be right back.


DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd and my guest today is Oram Miller. He’s a certified building biology environmental consultant and his website is

So Oram, we were talking about these different types of fields. You said four types of fields. So what are the four types of fields? Magnetic?

ORAM MILLER: Magnetic fields from house wiring, anything current house wiring. And then there are electric fields from house wiring, which are present even if you turn the light off. If there’s no current flowing, there won’t be any magnetic field, but the voltage is still there coming out of the lamp cord and out of the wall from the plastic room circuits that we have in our homes, six feet.

And what that does is that is oscillating the field. The electric field comes out six feet and it’s only measured with instruments that can measure electric field. It comes out positive and then it receives and then it expands again with a negative polarity and then it collapses. It expands and collapses and expands and collapses, but it’s positive, negative, positive negative. And that goes on 120 times a second, so it’s very rapid.

What happens is all the ions in yourself, the calcium ions, the potassium and sodium ions are all polarized, they’re all charged and they either have a positive charge or a negative charge. And those ions are alternately attracted or repulsed from the wire in the wall or the cord that you have by your bed that’s within that six foot bubble around your body, if you will, in all directions, up-down, left-right, be on the head or be on the foot.

If you’re in that field, then you don’t get a good night sleep because these ions are ultimately being attracted or repulsed like you’re drunk and you’re trying to walk down the street and you just can’t walk straight because there are these winds coming out from the left and right – well, that’s another example. I’m mixing my metaphors. But do you see what I mean?

DEBRA: I see what you mean and that begs the question. I don’t know how big my bedroom is right now, but I’ve slept in smaller bedrooms. I remember when I was a child and I just lived in a regular suburban house that had a standard 9 by 12 bedroom. How can you not have electricity in the room?

ORAM MILLER: Right. And even if you have a big bedroom, I go to clients’ homes here in Los Angeles that are large, as well as small and people don’t move their bed into the middle of the room and that’s not the solution that we recommend. What we recommend is having a professional assessment or people can do this on their own.

On my website,, in the Articles on EMF section, you can see separate articles that I’ve written on these four types of EMF. The third is radio frequencies or wireless. And the fourth is dirty electricity. And then under EMF Meters and Instruments, I have my recommended list of meters and instruments that you can purchase as well as information on how to use them.

There are also links to a separate website that belongs to Jerry Day who is the smart meter activist here in Southern California. He approached me a year ago and he said, “Can you recommend some inexpensive and affordable meters that I can recommend to my website of yours?” So I did. And he arranged to get some wholesale and [inaudible 00:17:14] amount of money selling them retail. And I have a link to his website.

And then he said, “Can we do some videos to show people how to use these meters?” So we did that. We did it in documentary format anyway. And so we spent over two days at a friend’s home of his actually shooting footage of me showing people how to use the particular meters that I chose for him. And at the same time, it gives me a chance to educate people on what the EMFs are and where you’ll find them.

DEBRA: That’s a really great resource. I think that that’s really needed because this is so important. I think that this is, in terms of health, as important as toxic chemicals, but it’s even more difficult to understand. And so anything that you can do to educate people so that they can help themselves in this area to understand the issues and also the meters and how to use them I think is fantastic.

ORAM MILLER: Yes. I have links to that website, which is I have links to that website from the little red banner with that web address from my website,

Just to comment on what you just said, Debra, it’s very true. There is a growing awareness of EMFs, thanks to smart meters and cellphones.

And most people out in the world who don’t know a building biologist or haven’t gone through training that we provide, I am part of the faculty now for that, what they know is cellphone, smart meters, earthing pads and their electricity with special filters and also these chips and pendants.

The interesting thing about all that is that covers a certain portion of the EMF spectrum and the EMF field or range of possible sources that you can have, but it does not acknowledge or take into consideration really the magnetic fields, the electric fields or even some components of the radio frequencies. And so the advances are a little skewed on portions of this topic that are part of the picture, but not the entire picture. So that’s where we come in. And I’m not trying to say that we are better or any judgment like that. It’s just that we have a very comprehensive knowledge with technology [inaudible 00:19:47].

DEBRA: Yes, you do. I’m familiar with your program, so I can vouch for the fact that it’s been comprehensive.

ORAM MILLER: We’ve had this conversation before. Helmut Ziehe came to Clearwater 27 or 28 years from Germany and founded the North American Chapter of the Building Biology profession, marrying an American woman. He passed away two or three years ago from a stroke. But his widow, Susannah is still there in Clearwater. And that was our headquarters for many, many years.

DEBRA: Yes. I knew Helmut and I still know Susannah.

ORAM MILLER: Right, right.

DEBRA: In fact, I have a funny story about how I met him many years ago when he first came to America at some conference. And we only met once and then I moved to Clearwater, Florida. And I wasn’t thinking, “I could see Helmut.” I hadn’t seen him in years and then I went to a supermarket and I was reaching for a carton of organic eggs and he was reaching for the same carton of organic eggs.

ORAM MILLER: A little divine intervention there.

DEBRA: Yeah. And we just looked at each other and he said, “Debra,” after he had met me once 25 years ago.

ORAM MILLER: He was a remarkable man.

DEBRA: Yes, yes, very much so.

ORAM MILLER: He recruited every one of us.


ORAM MILLER: Great organization, I’m so proud to be part of it.

DEBRA: Yes. Yes. I’m so glad that you all are doing what you’re doing about building biology, very much so.

ORAM MILLER: Thank you.

DEBRA: All right, so we need to go to break again. You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd and my guest today is Oram Miller. He’s a certified building biology environmental consultant. His website is

When we come back – I’m scribbling things down as you’re saying them – I want to hear about and I still need to talk about the earthing mats and also dirty electricity and I want to hear about the chips and pendants because people are always sending me things and I’m saying, “Do these work?” So let’s find out the answer to that question with you. We’ll be right back.


DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd and my guest today is Oram Miller, certified building biology environmental consultant and his website – he’s got lots of articles on his website and you should go there – is

So tell me what is the controversy about earthing mats?

ORAM MILLER: The problem is if you don’t eliminate the electric fields that comes from the plastic wiring in the circuits, in the walls and of course next to your bed, which are just inches from your body on multiple sides, then you actually are an antenna, your body is an antenna fat enough to be in that field without earthing mat because it does affect and diminish the amount of melatonin that your pineal gland releases in the middle of the night and it prevents you from getting deep stage for sleep for every sleep cycle, every 90 minutes of the cycle. So you’re not getting the deep rest and rejuvenation and recuperation that you need.

So if you go to my website, and you click on Comments from Clients, you’ll see real testimonials from people that I’ve worked with over the years where they say that they’re sleeping through the night, they’re awakening more refreshed and the kids are not falling asleep in the class. So these are all benefits that come from learning how to evaluate just for yourself or have a building biologist to do this for you to see which circuits to shut off, making sure you don’t shut off the refrigerator and the smoke alarms and so on.

And there are convenient ways of turning that off from inside the bedroom rather than having to go down to your breaker panel.

DEBRA: So the solution is to turn off circuits at night so they’re not right in your bedroom.

ORAM MILLER: And we identify.

DEBRA: Yes, the correct ones so that they’re not in your bedroom at night, but they’re still on in the rest of the house. You need to get those wires.

ORAM MILLER: Yeah, we don’t turn them all off, just the ones that raise the level. And you don’t want to just turn off the breaker for the [lights?] in your room because you can have one or two more circuits coming under the floor or in the wall that you don’t know about that keep the level up. So it’s really necessary to have a proper evaluation, then you know what’s going on.

DEBRA: So why would you even turn them back on? Why not just create a bedroom? I mean you’re just going there to sleep anyway.

ORAM MILLER: No, but you need them for your lights. I mean it’s the last thing you do before you go to sleep because otherwise, your room is totally dark when you’re in it.

DEBRA: Right, okay, I got it.

ORAM MILLER: And then we deal with sometimes you have a breaker that does two bedrooms, the mom and dad, but their son who’s 18 is next door or underneath and they’re on the same circuit or the field from their circuit goes into mom’s room. So who goes to bed first? It’s really quite a challenge to do this on a daily basis. Every house is unique, but we work through it.

And I work with people long distance over the phone by the way to help them if they have no building biologist where they live. I’ll do it over the phone with them, by phone or e-mail. They send me photos and they get meters and I teach them how to use them to do their own readings under my own guidance and then with the knowledge or information that I get from them. And then we can come up with a mitigation plan for all these EMFs.

So relatively the earthing mat, if that field is there and you lay on an earthing mat, which is there to provide a pass for beneficial negative ions or electrons to come from the earth, which is a big donor of electrons, which are beneficial in this case, to our bodies, which we all got naturally when we talked barefoot on the earth for millennia. We got into modern times and we live in the structures and wear shoes with synthetic materials, not leather, but synthetic materials that insulate us from the ground. We’re not getting the beneficial ions, so we’re electron-depleted and all these diseases. Clint Ober, the book Earthling talks about this by Martin Zucker.

So basically that’s what the earthing pad is for. However, if you have these fields in your room, which everyone does – everyone unless you live in Chicago or New York and you don’t have anything plugged in, then you have metal wiring in your walls by code in those cities, but that’s whole another story. So everyone has plastic wiring and everyone has electric fields where they sleep, everyone.

So if you have those fields in your bedroom and you are lying on the earthing mat – Clinton knows this and we talked to him about it because he was actually at our conference and one of our building biologist worked with him for a while – these fields get picked up by the body, the electric field, and then they run through your body or on the surface of the [inaudible 00:31:22] on to the sheet and down that wire in the process of grounding of the manmade electrons that are not healthy coming through the air from the circuits in the wall and the cords that are on the bedside table. That’s a deleterious effect on our physiology and a lot of people who are electrically sensitive, clients if mine, say they feel buzzed when they get on one of these sheets.

Now the reverse is what should be happening, which is the bringing up of beneficial ions from the soil and that’s the process of earthing. But you want t get rid of the manmade electric fields from the circuits. So we say, as opposed to the German building biologists who say never use the earthing, we say, “Hold on just a minute. We don’t know how to use this properly. We go ahead and we reduce the electric fields level through the techniques and particles that we use. And then if you want to add the earthing pad, that’s fine because there are no fields to be amplified or to run through you.” Then you can have the best of both [rows?].

DEBRA: Yeah, that makes sense. I’ve read the Earthling. I think it’s a really good book and I totally agree with the concept that we need to be connected electromagnetically to the earth, but my viewpoint was that I didn’t want to buy another device that would do this when I could just go out in my backyard and put my feet on the grass and lie my body down on the grass.

ORAM MILLER: But you can do that both. You can do that in daytime.

DEBRA: Yes. Yes.

ORAM MILLER: And you and I live in warm climates, Florida and California, so we can do that most of the year, all year-round. But at night, you can do it too if you’ve gotten rid of the electric fields and you should do that anyway. No one should sleep in an electric field environment at night.

DEBRA: I’ll go to your website and get those articles and take a look at that because I think I need to do that to my bedroom.


DEBRA: So go on, what are you going to say?

ORAM MILLER: I know we want to talk about wireless.

DEBRA: I know, but all of this is good too.


DEBRA: So let’s go back to wireless because we only have one segment left. We’ve got about a minute right now and then we’ve only got one segment left.

ORAM MILLER: Great. Let me answer the chips real quickly before the break.

DEBRA: Yeah, let’s do that.

ORAM MILLER: We have a position paper on our professions website, And I have a position paper on them, on my website on this chips and pendants and home harmonizers. And basically we feel that they have value because studies do show that they do benefits to physiology, but we do not believe that you should use them as your sole or exclusive way of protecting yourself.

It’s like a guy who has four ashtrays with branded cigarettes in his room and he’s filling the room with smoke. And then someone comes along and says, “I can sell you an air purifier that will clear the smoke.” It does, but the ashtrays are still producing the smoke. We know how to identify the ashtrays and get rid of them or convince the client to change – you’ll hear in the final segment – to hard wired ways of connecting instead of wireless. So that’s the analogy.

We say find the EMF and reduce them, increase distance for the wireless devices. We do fuse, favor hard wired alternatives. And that protects your home environment, but then use the chips and pendants when you go out because you can’t control that environment.

DEBRA: That’s a really good balanced answer and it parallels what I talk about with chemicals because you can just put an air purifier in the house and it will remove the chemicals, but you really need to remove them at the source and use the air purifier when you need to. We need to go to break.

ORAM MILLER: Exactly true.

DEBRA: We need to go to break.


DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd and my guest today is Oram Miller, certain building biology environmental consultant. His website is We’ll be right back.


DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd and my guest today is Oram Miller, certified building biology environmental consultant and his website is So let me just ask you one more question and then I want to hear the solution to wireless. So what is Bluetooth?

ORAM MILLER: Bluetooth is just another frequency and another technology. It’s just not as strong as the Wi-Fi nor it is as strong as cellphones. You have frequencies and then you have power density. And the power density is a term in South Florida [signal goers?].

So Bluetooth is a technology that uses relatively low power transmitters in the computer and in the thing in your ear or your mouth or your keyboard that’s cordless. And so they are talking to each other. And the harm by the way comes from the transmission, not the receiving.

So you can have an AM or FM radio next to your head all day long and if [inaudible 00:39:49], it wouldn’t really cause any harm to the cells.

But nowadays, we have portable transmitters in the form of cellphones, laptops, the Bluetooth things that you put in your ear and they’re transmitting and they transmit much more often than you realize. That’s where the harm comes.

DEBRA: Okay. So I have a Mac and it comes with a wireless keyboard and mouse, but I’m not using them. Is it still transmitting?

ORAM MILLER: Yes. Are you sitting in front of your computer now?

DEBRA: I’m sitting in front of my computer now, so I am not having any gain by not using the keyboard, right?

ORAM MILLER: I’m sorry. Say it again.

DEBRA: I am not having any benefit from not using the keyboard because the computer is still transmitting. Is that right?

ORAM MILLER: Well, actually true. I’m looking at my Mac as well right now. On the toolbars at the top, you have the day and the time.

DEBRA: Yes. Go ahead.

ORAM MILLER: To the left of that, in the upper right corner is the speaker and the sound, at least on mine. To the left of that is the Wi-Fi icon, which looks like a piece of pizza.


ORAM MILLER: It’s a V with curve line at the top.


ORAM MILLER: Well, mine doesn’t have any curve lines inside of it because I clicked on that and I scrolled down and it says, “Turn Wi-Fi on” on mine because it’s off.

DEBRA: Okay, mine is off too because I clicked on it and it says, “Turn Wi-Fi on.”

ORAM MILLER: That means that it’s off. And the other way you know it’s off is because that piece of pizza is empty, devoid of curve lines.

Now if the curve lines are there, but they’re gray, it means that you’re not picking up a Wi-Fi signal, but your computer is sending out a Wi-Fi signal looking for a router. And if they’re black or the first one or two are black, it tells you how strong the connection is to the router on a Wi-Fi basis.

Now, the emblem to the left of that, which on most Mac is a straight vertical line with then little triangles to the right and also lines to the left, that symbol is for Bluetooth.

DEBRA: I don’t have that at all.

ORAM MILLER: You don’t?


ORAM MILLER: Well, it’s in there somewhere and it may look different on more modern – I’ve got a pretty recent, in fact many. But still, I see the Bluetooth symbol looks a little different in some more recent Mac models.

DEBRA: Okay.

ORAM MILLER: Anyway, you click on it and the drop down menu says, “Turn Bluetooth on” or “Turn Bluetooth off.” If that icon is dark, then it means that it’s on and if you don’t have a cordless mouse or keyboard, then you want to go to that icon up there and then click on it and the drop down menu appears below it and you scroll down and left click on “Turn Bluetooth off.” And then it goes gray, instead of black, it’s gray, whatever shape it has and the Bluetooth is off.

We can determine this with the radio frequency detectors that we carry with us on the job as building biologists. You can purchase radio frequency meters as well and you can tell whether that’s on or off, depending on the reading you get on the meter. And some of these meters have sound. The Bluetooth has a particular sound and Wi-Fi has a different sound. It sounds like a helicopter. “Tug, tug, tug,” that’s what Wi-Fi sounds like.

Of course with telephones, these units, also in it are continuous signals. So when you hang up the phone, the radio frequency signal from the cordless handset in your hand next to your head is huge. It’s very potentially harmful. That’s whole another part of our story. But when you hang that up, when you hit off and stop the call and put it in this charging cradle and it happens to be the base unit with the cords that go to the telephone jack. That base unit is continuously putting out radio frequency signals 24/7, filling that room with these signals. You should not definitely have that in your bedroom.

DEBRA: Some years ago, I had a whole team of bau-biologists come to my house and do the whole chemical and EMF. It was one of the causes I saw. I had everybody in [inaudible 00:44:20] came to my house. I was the house.

ORAM MILLER: We did the same thing when we were down there. Yeah.

DEBRA: Yeah. And there were two things that read on the EMFs. We have a lot of lightning here and so a lot of people have – I forgot what they’re called – this backup thing so that we still have electricity.

ORAM MILLER: Backup generator?

DEBRA: Yeah. And I had one sitting right under my desk and I just put my feet on it all day long.

ORAM MILLER: Oh, you’re talking about uninterrupted power supply for your computer.

DEBRA: Yes, yes.

ORAM MILLER: That’s a huge emitter of magnetic field.

DEBRA: It was huge. And the other one was sitting right next to me. It was my cordless phone. Those were the only two things and I was sitting right next to them all day long. And as soon as they told me that, I took both of them out and I never had them again.

ORAM MILLER: Well, you can have the UPS or uninterrupted power supply. Just move it. Get a Gauss meter, Debra and people, the listeners.

DEBRA: I have one.

ORAM MILLER: Okay. And then all you do is just put it next to the device and see the power supply and see how strong the field is. And you’ll notice with point sources, which are in transformers and motors like that, the field is very strong upclose, but it drops off exponentially, very quickly as you pull away.

You pull it away and within one or two feet, it goes down to the ambient level of the room, which should be below one [inaudible 00:45:42]. So you just push that thing over, get it away from your feet, two or three feet and get a longer cord. You know what I am saying here.

DEBRA: I know what you’re saying, yeah.

ORAM MILLER: Well, I spend an hour at the computer desk of my client just going through all these things. And in fact, on my website, I have a page called Safer Use of Computer. And on that page, I have broken down how to clean up that place for each of the four types of EMF. Not just including your computer, but it’s good for all equipment.

DEBRA: That’s great.

ORAM MILLER: Yeah. So in the remaining minutes, let me just say that the whole issue of wireless and radio frequency exposure is a real conundrum and I will tell you why.

On one hand, we have not only industry that is following the exact same playbook that the tobacco and asbestos and lead and gasoline industries did decades ago. In fact, they are hiring the same PR firms, public relations firms to help them with this to obscure the truth and distort it and attack the messenger and just say that there’s no evidence of any harm when in fact just thousands of studies have shown that there is.

So that’s going on. And at the same time, people love the portability and the accessibility. And the majority of the people don’t feel the symptoms, but everyone is affected on a cellular according to research by people like Martin Blank, PhD who retired from Columbia University who wrote a book called Overpowered and he has spoken at our conference for our profession and also at the Cancer Control Society here in Los Angeles where I spoke.

We had lunch with him and he said, “I was skeptic until I did my own research for Columbia on the DNA effects and everyone is affected on a cellular level.” But most people, Debra, can feel the damage that’s done when they sleep at night particularly if they have electric-filled environment.

But the point is a third of the population worldwide is known to have symptoms right now from these technologies. And we’re in this grace period, this window during which the tumors are growing and we have industry in this country saying that there’s no harm. And they control Congress and government regulatory agencies like the EPA and FCC who say that there’s no harm. But they’re only looking at outdated research methods, based on thermal effects only and they are completely ignoring the biological effects at much lower levels where there are thousands of research studies overseas that show that there’s a problem.

So what’s happening is in those countries around the world where the governments pay for the healthcare delivery for their population, they see the hand running on the wall, the see the [booming?] health crisis that’s going to strain their budgets just like what happened with the other problems with tobacco, asbestos and lead and gasoline. They see that this would be the fourth health crisis in 60 years. They want to get ahead of the curve. So France just voted in January to ban Wi-Fi in daycare centers and nurseries.

DEBRA: Good for them.

ORAM MILLER: So my question to the people in this country who say that there’s no problem with this is why would this country decided to do this? It’s because of the overwhelming research that they are allowed to see that’s in the media.

The Council of Europe, the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, Committee Resolution 1815 was released in 2011 where literally this government agency, which is like our Consumer Product Safety Commission in this country, said to the European governments of all the member states, 47 member countries, “You have to establish a public awareness campaign particularly for people at child-bearing age and teenagers. Tell the public about the harmful effects of continuous emissions from these devices, especially baby monitors and Wi-Fi and cordless phones. Take them out of classrooms and favor hard wired connections. Pay attention to the whistle-blower scientists. Set up wave-free areas for the electrically sensitive population.”

DEBRA: I need to interrupt you because we’re going to come up on the music. It’s going to happen in about five seconds. So I want to say thank you so much for being on the show. You have so much information.

You can go Oram’s website, which is And get a lot more information on his website about what we’re talking about today.

ORAM MILLER: Thank you, Debra.

DEBRA: Thank you, Oram. We’ll talk again.

ORAM MILLER: Thank you so much.

DEBRA: This is Toxic Free Talk Radio. Be well.


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